Anna Samkova: Strategic Advisor and Co-Founder with Albany Advisory

^{Joe Fox (00:01.461)}
Hey everyone, Joe Fox here. I'm the President at Growave. I'm very excited today to introduce you to Anna Samkova. Anna is one of the partners at Albany Advisory. And this is an episode that I'm really excited for two reasons. Anna is based in Australia. So I always love being able to have conversations with people back home, but more so

Anna is an absolute expert at loyalty. So this is going to be a masterclass for everyone watching today, we're going to cover a lot of the fundamentals, what's working, what's not what changes are happening in the market around loyalty. So without further ado, please welcome Anna. Anna, thanks for joining.

_{Anna Samkova (00:44.078)}
Of course, thanks Joe for inviting me. I'm so excited about this conversation.

^{Joe Fox (00:48.154)}
Absolutely. Yeah, I, as I mentioned earlier, I'm really excited for this episode. I mean, we have a lot of like people come in from agency background and web and they dabble a little bit in loyalty and all of those sorts of things. But as I stated, I feel like you're a real expert. So what I'd love to kind of just jump into just so the audience can get a bit of an idea on your background. How did you get into the space that you're in? And how did Albany advisors come about?

_{Anna Samkova (01:16.898)}
question. Thanks, John. Well, as you could hear, I am not from Australia originally. I've been here for about 33 years, but originally from Ukraine, just to give some context, otherwise people get confused about my accent. But I'm not sure if I'm a loyalty expert, but I definitely landed in there by default, because I was asked once to build the loyalty program for

one of the biggest telco companies in Australia. And at that point, I literally said to the founder, what's loyalty? I asked that question probably 23 years ago, and he didn't give me a very explicit answer. So I had to make it up, but I probably did a very good job at it because we launched it on national TV about eight months later. So it became.

^{Joe Fox (01:53.651)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (02:09.954)}
hugely successful and then overnight I became that loyalty expert. But my expertise lie in marketing actually and digital because I dropped the and grew the online presence for multiple fashion retailers across apparel and footwear. But when I stepped out from my corporate career about two and a half years ago and became a consultant two years ago,

people do approach me more so for customer strategy and then that inevitably it goes into digital and the whole omni-channel proposition just because I do have a lot of experience in that.

^{Joe Fox (02:48.861)}
Absolutely. And I mean, some of the brands that you work with are absolutely incredible. We were just talking offline about one in particular. And, you know, I absolutely love seeing, you know, Australian brands and they always tend to have a really distinct presence, but they're, in my opinion, quite honestly, I feel like a lot of Australian brands are quite ahead of US brands.

And I feel like that's potentially because Australian brands really have to stand out, they really have to do everything to kind of stand out because the population isn't necessarily there to support it. Whereas I find a lot of American brands benefit just from sheer population and they don't focus on the key principles in digital and marketing as much. And that's not across the board, but that's just definitely something I noticed. And I really love that about the Australian ecommerce scene is that

everyone involved such as yourself is always really, really experienced, really masterful and really thoughtful in the work that they do. So I would love to there's there's two things I kind of want to unpack specifically in this episode, because I think the audience can benefit from this a lot. So one, I would love to if you could just give a bit of a background story on on a couple of econ brands or, or maybe even particularly one.

and what you feel that they did to really stand out on the loyalty side of things and how they really focused on growing that loyalty program and how you help them get there.

_{Anna Samkova (04:24.846)}
Sure, very good question. And also, Joe, a very good observation about Australian brands. They do hustle a lot, but there is always that appetite to expand in the US and Europe just due to that population and just see if that proposition actually sticks. And we do know about many, many success stories and...

^{Joe Fox (04:32.336)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (04:44.59)}
Rod and Gun in particular is a very well known and very well trusted and recognized and loved retailer in Australia and New Zealand. originated from New Zealand. As you know, because you're a customer, as you're a fan, as we found out before the recording. Yes. And they expanded in the U.S. and it has been a very successful story. But again, speaking about Rod and Gun, what works for them? They actually know who the customer is.

^{Joe Fox (04:57.048)}
Yep, I'm a fan. I'm a fan.

_{Anna Samkova (05:14.528)}
And they're just doubled down on that. And I think knowing who the customer is, is the foundation of any customer strategy. And I don't necessarily like call it loyalty because loyalty has many different definitions and everyone defines loyalty differently. But what I'm talking about, like just talk about the customer and the customer strategy. And in many cases, no one owns that part of strategy, although this is the one.

^{Joe Fox (05:35.437)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (05:43.373)}
that ultimately pays the bills and responsible for the growth because customers pay for all our initiatives and our strategies and the growth essentially as well. And what I found that everyone is busy doing many, many things in the business. You have merchandise planners, they're doing an amazing job. You have the buyers, you have designers, you have a leadership team, you have a marketing team.

^{Joe Fox (05:46.22)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (06:13.726)}
digital retail ops, who owns the customer? Who's responsible for that? So, and unless you have a customer chief officer who reports directly into the CEO, this is a very broken structure. And if you don't have anyone's responsible, that no one owns that proposition, therefore it can't grow. In terms of the e-commerce brands that grow, they're the ones that are

^{Joe Fox (06:18.423)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (06:43.288)}
very laser focused on their customer and they understand the importance of that strategy for sustainable growth. Otherwise it's not sustainable. And acquisition and retention, they are not mutually exclusive. They go hand in hand with customers. I don't look after specifically e-commerce brands. They normally

big national retailers with a very strong omnichannel presence. They have a very successful online store, but also in their portfolio, they at least have a hundred plus physical stores. I tend to go into that enterprise size retailer space just because I know it very well and this is my background. But what I found that the brands that grow the most are the ones with a strong physical presence.

and a very robust online ecosystem that they have an ecosystem and it goes together and it exists together very, very well. And that what we found as well that these customers, they flow in between those channels that not necessarily just shop online or just shop in store and the brands who pay attention to that crossover customer definitely win in the game.

And they definitely grow sometimes in my customers scenario. It's a double digit growth year on year, even if in this economical, difficult economical situation and a tough scenario that we're facing around the world. But Australia is not exempt from it either because we have high inflation rates and interest rates and obviously the petrol.

prices and everything that comes with it. So the driving and growing the business becomes a very challenging proposition. But yet, if we have, if we laser focus on that customer, that will shop inevitably, maybe he or she will shop a little bit less, but they will still shop. If we know who they are and double down on that and look after them, then we don't have to

_{Anna Samkova (09:05.09)}
worry about hitting ourselves targets.

^{Joe Fox (09:08.572)}
I absolutely love that approach because I'm the biggest believer of it is so much not necessarily easier. Well, I think it is easier. I can say my personal opinion, but my personal opinion is it's much easier to keep an existing customer happy and engaged with a brand than it is to spend a whole bunch of dollars and advertising dollars top of funnel to try and generate new customers.

And the biggest thing that I always, you know, speak to agencies about is particularly agencies, because that's kind of where a lot of my background lies, is making sure that that is something that the merchant is aware of. Because I think merchants can sometimes have this mentality that they go to an agency, they engage in agency, and they're like, we just want all of these new customers. And it's kind of like, well,

what are you doing to service your existing customers? Because if you bring in a whole bunch of new customers, they're not going to have the best experience. And then you're to have to continually continually focus on getting a whole bunch of new customers. And it becomes really difficult. And this this perpetual cycle that eventually is going to run out. So I really, really love that approach. And, you know, talking about omni channel and stuff. I love

retailers that get Omnichannel right. I think you should be able to have this somewhat seamless experience of being able to shop online, shop in store. I really like it when, you know, stores allow you to make returns for purchases that you purchased online in store. And I think there's a whole multitude of benefits to really focusing on that Omnichannel. And I love that that's a big part of your focus. And speaking of Rod and Gun, I also feel

that one thing that they do incredibly well. It's one of my favorite places in the entire planet is Queenstown, but I also love the Rod and Gun Bar in Queenstown because I feel that fits into their ethos of their brand so well. So, yeah, sorry, just a little side note that we didn't cover before.

_{Anna Samkova (11:22.958)}
love Queenstown is my happy place. We tried to go there at least once a year. It's a beautiful, beautiful sports spot. yeah, so here you go. We have another thing in common, but can I touch on Joe what you said before about creating, we call it, well, I don't call it, but James Herman, I don't know if you've heard of him, calls it future demand, that it's very important to acquire new customers as well as retain them. And our approach.

^{Joe Fox (11:26.252)}
Absolutely.

^{Joe Fox (11:30.411)}
Absolutely.

_{Anna Samkova (11:50.563)}
now, and it has been ongoing and it's been very, very successful. The, that, the knowledge that not all customers are worth retaining. Only those that spend more with you are worth retaining. That's how the whole proposition about,

^{Joe Fox (12:01.841)}
Hmm.

_{Anna Samkova (12:08.942)}
You know, we collecting so much data from our customers. Every single business has a lot of data on their customers, but how we use it, it's very, very important. How we identify those 20 % that are responsible for 80 % of our revenue. And it's always the case. It's not all of them. It's the portion of them. And I think Rod and Gun is very good.

at identifying those people as well, because then they can personalize that experience. But at the same time, what we found through many, many years of studying and business cases that we formed and created, that it's also as important to add

to create that future demand of customers who are not necessarily on the market right now, but they will be in the near future because that's what makes that growth sustainable because you can't just rely on your existing customers. They will at some point, they will drop off. So you need to constantly make sure that you are creating enough awareness about the brand.

to attract, to create that future demand and attract those potential customers into your ecosystem. And that's a big job.

^{Joe Fox (13:20.662)}
Yes. Yes, absolutely. I mean, sorry.

_{Anna Samkova (13:22.518)}
And it's.

And you need to be very strategic with that.

^{Joe Fox (13:28.202)}
Absolutely. And, and to your point, and I feel like, you know, there's so many tools available now and there's so much noise and there's so many different ways, you know, as, as you mentioned, for businesses to process and analyze and look at all of the data that they're obtaining, but for the purposes of the podcast and just to give the audience a little bit more insight, you know, I definitely don't want you to give away all of your secrets, but

Is there is there particular, you know, let's say, for example, a large multinational company comes to you, they have a, you know, a digital presence, they have a retail footprint, they're really looking to kind of close the gap and create a really strong omni channel, you know, experience for their customers, and they're looking to experience that growth. What are the kind of first steps that you go through? Is it

really jumping in and having a look at all of the data and seeing what's working for them and what's not? Or do you approach everything with a really holistic perspective and look through all of the data and kind of start from scratch?

_{Anna Samkova (14:39.982)}
Great question. And the reason why I love enterprise size retail business for the hundred plus stores because this is the most complex one.

^{Joe Fox (14:49.707)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (14:49.74)}
because it's inevitably they have an old tech, sometimes upgraded, sometimes not. There is a lot of legacy. There is a lot of history. There is a lot of we've done this before and this is how we do things. It's not necessarily gets disrupted too often just because it is very challenging to unpack.

^{Joe Fox (14:56.704)}
Yeah.

_{Anna Samkova (15:15.98)}
the whole thing. And these businesses have been around, most of my clients have been around for 20 plus years and they're very successful retailers. But once you get under the hood, there is a lot to discover. And I normally try to not to shock them straight away, but have a look at the foundations, what actually they have and see if I can work with them on can we improve

^{Joe Fox (15:21.514)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (15:43.373)}
their customer proposition based on what you have. And I think this is a very important approach and then get some quick wins through that strategy and then have a look what needs to be upgraded, what needs to be stitched differently, what needs to be optimized better, because in many cases there is a people love tech in general and they follow the tech and I love tech.

^{Joe Fox (15:47.806)}
Hmm.

_{Anna Samkova (16:13.344)}
Absolutely, but it needs to serve the customer ultimately. So tag is just an enabler. So we need to be very clear on how we want to serve customer. What is it that we want to create for them? What value proposition we have for them, how we can delight and surprise them, how we can create that incredible experience that they keep following us and use our product and our services ongoing and become raving fans. And then

We can have a look at is the existing tag that we have, does it enable that proposition? Is it possible for us to achieve that purpose and that strategic goal that we have for our customer? So ultimately we have to follow the customer and in the businesses that I work in, they don't normally have that customer ownership within the existing org chart. So it's easier for me.

to establish the foundation. But it also means that I have to get heads off from each department and get them in one room and have the same conversation at the same time. And I better know how to read the room as well because sometimes it's a lot of people and they represent each department from this big organization. And sometimes...

^{Joe Fox (17:31.464)}
Absolutely.

_{Anna Samkova (17:41.081)}
they operate in silos as well. They're exceptionally good in what they do, but what moves the needle really is that the conversation that we can have at the same time in one room about the same objective. So that's my approach.

^{Joe Fox (17:59.363)}
Absolutely. Yeah, I love that so much. And I mean, that's that's super impressive being able to get all of those stakeholders in one room and get them all, you know, singing from the same song sheet. I think that's that's a that's an entirely, you know, separate skill from from everything, but very, very impressive. And I think that cohesion is clearly quite important to

for you to help unlock that growth for them. So I love to hear that. And I guess, Anna, the, you know, some of the audience that are that are listening today might be, you know, we do have some enterprise brands, but we have a lot of, you know, kind of small medium, upcoming businesses. We have some businesses where, you know, merchants where they've actually started online, and now they're looking to transition to, you know, getting a foothold in retail and

they've created these amazing, you know, kind of online experiences, everything from, you know, ensuring that the minute the customer lands to the minute the customer receives the package, they are surprised and delighted. As you mentioned, do you do you find this is kind of an open ended question, but I'm just curious to get your take. Do you think it's easier to surprise and delight with an online shopping experience or with an in store shopping experience?

_{Anna Samkova (19:23.822)}
So I actually have a great example for you. So I work currently with one enterprise size retailer. They've been around for 30 plus years. Their customer demographic are women of the age of 50 plus.

^{Joe Fox (19:25.102)}
Okay.

Fantastic.

^{Joe Fox (19:35.609)}
Wow.

_{Anna Samkova (19:41.247)}
and they've got a very strong brand recognition as you can imagine. They have a hundred plus stores across the country, very much loved and recognized and they have not in all those years never had a

loyalty kind of proposition doesn't mean to be a loyalty program and when they reached out to me I looked at it and the first thing I started with the customer server actually asked them question I said have you ever asked your customers what it is that they want and what they like what they dislike what their suggestions are or recommendations around your brand and the answer was surprised me a lot because the answer was no

^{Joe Fox (20:24.472)}
Wow.

_{Anna Samkova (20:24.814)}
So I didn't want to make any assumptions that I know a lot about their customers. I obviously visited their stores and I spent a lot of time on their online store as well. And it flew very well. definitely, their buy is 10 out of 10. They definitely know who they're buying it for and the product proposition is exceptional. And we ran a customer survey.

80 % of customers came back and said, we actually want some kind of a loyalty program because other shops that we shop at, they have that loyalty proposition and you don't. And it was so clear straight away to everyone who looked at that feedback, what we need to prioritize. And that was about just over 14 months ago.

^{Joe Fox (20:58.955)}
Wow.

^{Joe Fox (21:14.06)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (21:19.148)}
I remember because we launched Surprise and Delight in February last year and we never looked back because ever since then, the engagement, the AOV, the customer lifetime value went through the roof since we launched it. But again, because it took them by surprise, there were budget constraints because there was no budget allocated to build that.

loyalty proposition and I said to them why don't they just have a different approach and we start with the surprise and delight proposition. We're not going to commit to anything specific, we're not going to set up tiers officially, we're not going to do anything officially but we create that surprise and delight and follow customer behavior and see where it gets us and that's exactly what we did. We launched, we call it Gray Friends

surprise and delight program in February last year and they used to acquire before that they used to acquire about 2000 customers a week in the first two weeks it had doubled it it went from 2000 to 5000 6000 customers and that surprised even me our show

^{Joe Fox (22:26.237)}
Whoa!

^{Joe Fox (22:31.285)}
Wow. Wow. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's absolutely yeah, that's fantastic. And, once again, I, you know, that's your methodology, right? Like, you know, finding the low hanging fruit, the opportunities and then executing on that. And I love hearing that not just because it's, you know, a loyalty program, but I just love hearing those wins for heritage brands that have been around for

for like quite a long time. And I do believe I know who who that brand is as well. But and definitely, you know, they really have a very, very strong presence. So that's really cool. And it's interesting, you know, you brought up the fact that they highlighted that other brands that they'd, you know, other brands that they shopped with had loyalty and everything in place. Do you do you think

that that's part of, you know, the evolving consumer behavior, because I find a lot of the time, once again, referring back to, you know, kind of agencies that I talked to, is that there's this constant evolution of, you know, shopper behavior or merchant behavior. And obviously, it varies by demographic and region and all of those sorts of things. But, you know, I think, and I'm curious to get your take on this too, Anna is

You know, with the, with the, and I, I don't like just talking about AI all the time, but I do think it is something, you know, that needs to be covered because I think there's really good use cases of it being used, you know, in e-commerce and e-commerce and omni-channel. there's cases of it not being used well, right? Like a lot of the content you see from brands and it's, you know, one minute they put it putting together really nice curated on brand.

content and then the next minute, you know, they're putting out content that you can clearly see as AI and it's just not to a high standard. But, you know, where do you see, I guess, kind of consumer behavior evolving with the advent of AI? Like now that AI is becoming more and more prominent. I mean, I've had a couple of, you know, SEO experts on recently and they said that, you know, Google search traffic is just

^{Joe Fox (24:53.916)}
gone off a cliff as people adjust to chat GBT, I guess, similar to, you know, shifts that have happened in the past online where audiences might go from Facebook to Instagram and Instagram to tick tock, et cetera. But where do you think that plays into, you know, things going forward and not necessarily just loyalty, more the customer journey and in whole.

_{Anna Samkova (25:17.262)}
Well, and I'm glad that we bring this up because this is the world we live in and it's not going to go away. The same like internet's not going to go away. The iPhone's not going to disappear. So we just need to, the faster we adapt to the better. But then again, we just need to understand what is the purpose of that adaptation and where it could apply. And I think

The best way to look at it is into customer discoverability to begin with, because to your point for all the SEO experts right now, it's changes how people discover the brand, right? I use AI to do a lot of shopping for me.

^{Joe Fox (25:48.54)}
Hmm.

_{Anna Samkova (25:55.661)}
just because it's precise and it's brilliant by the way. And it saves me a lot of time. And why wouldn't I? So, and that becomes, you get attached to that great experience. But again, that experiential retell, that discoverability, this is what we need to lean on.

^{Joe Fox (25:59.226)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Anna Samkova (26:16.088)}
First of all, have an obligation as a brand, as a business to help our potential customers to discover us. How do we do that? And then again, it comes down to, do you know your customer very well? Do you know if they use AI to discover you or they go on to Google or Edge to discover you? How do they find that? Or they see the billboard and they see on the screen or in the retail media space. And once we know that, then we can double

done on that. So how can we help with our product description, the meta titles, how we can help that customer discover us? How can we make sure that AI enabled as well? I think if we're going back to basics, so if you know the customer, then it's easy for us to apply AI in those areas where they are and they're interested in. So discoverability is 100 % and then personalization as well. I actually read yesterday

I if you came across that. There was an article on Tesco, the grocery store in the UK that I have to send it to you. It's remarkable. I think about 12 months ago, they brought that AI architect specialist in. And at that point, they had about 24 million data points on their customers. 24 million. This is...

^{Joe Fox (27:21.293)}
I didn't see that one.

^{Joe Fox (27:38.872)}
Wow. Wow. Wow. That's a lot. Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (27:43.949)}
This is not for faint-hearted exactly. Can you imagine trying to do it without AI?

It would be impossible. Therefore the job would be too big and people like just give up and say, you know what, it's just a grocery store. That actually doesn't matter. They come and shop with us anyway. And they employed AI across those touch points that started creating it act as a recommendation and personalization agent as well. Obviously there was a more complex build than I described it, but I was just amazed at the results that they

delivering right now. Their growth is extraordinary and so is their basket size went up by I think around 12 % which is for grocery stores is incredible and it's an amazing business case. So we need to jump on that AI wagon very very quickly because it helps us to look our customer better at scale.

^{Joe Fox (28:31.299)}
Wow, it's huge, yeah.

^{Joe Fox (28:48.332)}
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. mean, the sorry, I just wanted to quickly jump in there. It's like the to your point, it's not going away. It's being utilized more and more in everyone's day to day. But I think, you know, you really articulated that incredibly well about the discovery and the personalization piece. Because once again, I think some people might only be thinking of the discovery piece or they may only be

you know, thinking about the personalization piece, but both are incredibly important. So I think that was some really, really cool insights. And a side note, 12 % is astronomical for grocery. I mean, that's really impressive.

_{Anna Samkova (29:29.954)}
It

_{Anna Samkova (29:33.931)}
It is indeed. can you imagine the complexity of it? But Gourand for identifying this not yesterday, but 12 months ago. So the best time to start on with AI implication is definitely yesterday, 12 months ago. But the second best time is definitely now because it's getting more in tune. It's getting a little bit complex if you're too behind and you're nervous and you're just dabbling into this

^{Joe Fox (29:42.338)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (29:52.812)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (30:04.024)}
but I normally say well at least start with product descriptions every single site has product descriptions so start making sure that this optimized for AI as a starting point because this is what you do all the time anyway and that doesn't go away

^{Joe Fox (30:18.261)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (30:23.094)}
and then progress into generative SEO and beyond that and dynamic pricing as we all talk about it now too. But it's not going to go away. So we just need to have these conversations right now. But with the view of we know who our customer is right now.

and whom we want to attract into our ecosystem as well. Because customers do change their preferences. They get older, they go through different stages in their lifetime. So that's why...

Life cycles are very good examples of it because they need to be up to scratch and they need to be revisited all the time, life cycle campaigns, what to have more of and what to have less of and different customer segments. But can I say all in all, it's an exceptionally exciting space because and it's exciting for me because I started this journey

I don't know, 25 years ago. I have a lot of, lucky for me, I have a lot of experience and I know what good looks like and what ugly looks like. But I think we really need to adapt this growth mindset now and not to sit on a fence and...

and deliberate like should we shouldn't we what do we do and I think what helped me to be so successful in my career is the fact that I just I followed the customer all the time.

_{Anna Samkova (31:56.405)}
I intuitively adapted that philosophy back in the day when I looked after seven fashion brands, so their online presence, and it was exceptionally successful for us. And then it went on to across 15 brands. saw it firsthand how...

^{Joe Fox (31:56.562)}
No.

_{Anna Samkova (32:15.828)}
successful and for growth and sustainability is to follow the customer all the time because if you don't how would you know what what to do what to adapt what to what to attract is it

Is it the referral program? Is it a loyalty program? Is it tiered approach? Do we need to optimize our wishlist? Which one we jump into? And luckily GrowWave is actually a great platform across all of those points. And you're doing a great job at it by the way. I'm so glad that I discovered that. But how do you prioritize? How would you know? How would you lead the team and tell them?

^{Joe Fox (32:51.549)}
Thank you. Thank you.

_{Anna Samkova (33:00.11)}
This is what's important for us. This is our overarching strategy for the next year. And this is what we're going to prioritize. What do you prioritize?

^{Joe Fox (33:09.522)}
Yeah, no, you're 100 % right. And I love, you know, you being able to articulate that so well, because I think it's so important. I think, you know, it does concern me a little bit, you know, not only, not only some brands, you know, not necessarily embracing AI, but also, unfortunately, you know, some agencies and some consultants are just kind of having this anti AI.

kind of stance and I love to hear you know such as yourself like really embracing it and using it to harness more of the good that you're doing and to be able to better serve the customer because at the end of the day that's what it what it truly can do so I love to hear that and heed warning anyone listening that you need to embrace AI it's it's super important so I really appreciate that

Anna, we could talk forever. I really, really enjoyed recording this and I really hope we get to do a part two. And in saying that, if I do part twos and not everyone, I don't invite everyone to do those, but I would definitely like to extend that invitation to you. I always like to ask kind of what your predictions or what the guest predictions are for the next 12 months. I think it's a really cool.

you know, standpoint and getting a really cool viewpoint from someone so knowledgeable such as yourself. So in saying that, what are your predictions for the next 12 months in e commerce in retail in general? Like what do you think is coming our way?

_{Anna Samkova (34:50.934)}
I think, Joe, with all the complexities of the world that we live in and the whole unpredictability, my view that we will be more forced to go back to basics and understand what we have, what we need to improve on, what we need to optimize and what it is that we need in order to grow sustainably. coming back to basics, meaning that

^{Joe Fox (35:02.861)}
Okay.

_{Anna Samkova (35:18.454)}
looking into every single touch point that we have in the whole ecosystem. Does it operate to its best efficiency and what role AI can play to amplify that? And how can AI help to

do a more strategic work so that it can take away that heavy lifting that is based on admin tasks and very repetitive tasks as well so that we create more space for humans to be more strategic and create that wide space for thinking because AI is not going to do it. AI in isolation can't do much luckily for us. Well not yet anyway.

^{Joe Fox (35:59.331)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Anna Samkova (36:02.63)}
So what works very well, I think is AI plus human is a very powerful combination and not to rely on AI. So we still need to apply that critical thinking, which we both know AI absolutely lacks. And, but we need to create more space for humans for that critical thinking. And I think this is going to be a very powerful combination. Once we embrace it and as our strategic partner,

^{Joe Fox (36:18.38)}
Yes.

_{Anna Samkova (36:31.966)}
it can be magical in the way that it still serves our customers.

^{Joe Fox (36:35.821)}
Bye.

I absolutely love that. That's a fantastic take. And we share a lot of the same viewpoints on that because critical thinking and, know, to that point, AI is a technology. It's a really advanced form of technology and it's a really useful tool, but at the end of the day, it is a tool and it's only is going to be as good as the users import. So absolutely love that take.

Really looking forward to checking in on that one when we do it, when we do a follow up. But, and this has been so incredibly valuable. I know I speak for the audience when I say that. what I'm going to ask is what is the best way for brands to connect with you outside of here? and for, and for the general audience who aren't a brand, but want to stay up to date with, the content and everything that you're sharing.

What's the best place for people to be able to connect with you Anna?

_{Anna Samkova (37:36.495)}
Well, first of all, Joe, thank you for your kind words. And I do hope that when you're visiting your homeland in August this year that we get to meet in person. But the best way to find me is on LinkedIn. I'm quite active on LinkedIn and I share a lot of content as well, just for thought provoking and educational purposes, nothing else. But that's probably the best way to connect with me and find out more about what I do.

^{Joe Fox (38:04.327)}
Absolutely. And I'll make sure that's in the show notes. So everyone can access that really easily. But Anna, thank you so much. I definitely do hope we get to meet in person too. It'll definitely be a little cooler in in down in Melbourne, then but it'll be really nice. And yeah, I'm really grateful for the insights and just the knowledge and everything that you brought to this podcast today. So thank you so much for coming on board and thank you for being

a fan of Growave and a partner and all of that. So thank you for your time today.

_{Anna Samkova (38:35.854)}
I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful for this conversation. Thanks, Joe. And you're a very good conversationalist and I've heard quite a few episodes of you. You literally have been on a few of your podcast series and it's been great. You have great guests and you lead the discussion very well. And I like the authenticity and the whole approach to it. And yes, when you're in Melbourne, it doesn't matter about the weather. You know, we have the best coffee.

^{Joe Fox (38:41.555)}
Hahaha.

^{Joe Fox (38:59.883)}
Absolutely, I'm missing that because Texas does, I don't care what anyone says, Texas does not have good coffee, so.

_{Anna Samkova (39:06.702)}
I promise you, I promise you a very good copy, yeah.

^{Joe Fox (39:11.466)}
I look forward to it. look forward to it. And I thank you so much for joining us. I'll make sure that's in the show notes. I know that you're going to get some people reaching out to you because that was incredibly powerful. This has been one of my favorite episodes to record, honestly. So thank you. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

_{Anna Samkova (39:15.288)}
course.

_{Anna Samkova (39:29.442)}
Thanks Joe,

^{Joe Fox (39:31.475)}
Thanks, Anna. Bye. Audience, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Retain Grow Thrive. As you can see, that was an absolutely fantastic episode. Anna is incredibly knowledgeable. If you're a large brand, enterprise brand, who's looking to really unify that omnichannel experience, I highly recommend you reach out to Anna on LinkedIn. Her profile is in the show notes. And audience, if you just want to learn more,

_{Anna Samkova (39:32.856)}
a bit. Bye.

^{Joe Fox (39:58.759)}
and get a lot of really good content and ideas and education. Please also connect with Anna. Her content is really, really spot on. Her LinkedIn is really, really good. So I encourage you to connect there. But thank you so much for tuning into another episode and I'll see you again soon.