Martyn Boddy: Chief Revenue Officer at Rise.ai

^{Joe Fox (00:00.847)}
Hey everyone, Joe Fox here, president at Growave I'm here to welcome you to another episode of Retain Grow Thrive Today I have one of the nicest gentlemen in the entire e-commerce space on. He's had a very, very phenomenal background, very phenomenal level of experience. There probably isn't anyone who knows partnerships better in my opinion. And now he's dove into the world of consulting coming from a very strong partnerships ecosystem with Adobe.

AMEX and Shopify and we're going to hear all about that today. So without further ado, I'd really like to introduce my good friend Martyn Boddy. Martyn, thank you for joining us.

_{Martyn Boddy (00:40.076)}
Hey Joe, nice to spend the time with you. Thanks for inviting me.

^{Joe Fox (00:43.787)}
Absolutely. I've really been looking forward to this episode, Martyn. I always gel a lot with you when we connect at conferences and I really love your insights and all of the content you're putting out at the moment on LinkedIn and you've been putting out for quite some time. So I will make sure that your LinkedIn is linked in the show notes because I think it's a very, very good place for people to catch a lot of your very impactful insights that are very up to date.

So Martyn, tell me a little bit about you, your background, where you're at now. I really want to dive in particularly around scaling the Shopify plus partnerships team. I know you were number one to do that. So that's like, there's no, there's no other guests that can say that they've done that. So I'm very excited to dive into that.

_{Martyn Boddy (01:30.67)}
Yeah, definitely. So I've worked in and around technology platforms focusing in e-commerce probably since around 2008, I think. Started in payment gateway side of things, so in the financial part, and then moved into e-commerce platforms probably around 12 years ago now. So spent a bit of time with Magento, as it was at the time, the eBay years, as I call it. And then moved over to, started speaking with Shopify in 2015.

^{Joe Fox (01:54.435)}
Yeah.

_{Martyn Boddy (01:59.432)}
and joined Shopify early 16 to build out the partnerships for Shopify Plus and stayed with that wonderful business for just over six years and had a few engagements since. know, did some of the agency side and then took all of my various skill sets into consulting about a year ago now.

^{Joe Fox (02:18.593)}
Yes, definitely. Martyn, I, there's two major points I want to elaborate on here. And I know I speak for the entire audience. let's, let's dive into the Shopify stuff first. I think, you know, the majority of our listeners are either in our partner ecosystem and which is the Shopify ecosystem, whether it's agency or tech or their customers who are on a Shopify. So

Can you talk a little bit about what that was like? mean, six years being there, very early days there, really focusing on building out that partnerships team. What was that experience like?

_{Martyn Boddy (02:57.07)}
it was too many adjectives for this podcast. but I would, I would start with that. was, it was a really interesting challenge to begin with. And Shopify was coming from a place where they'd already seen a pretty great deal of success in the SMB space and they were trying to push further up market. And we all have different definitions of enterprise, but basically at the time Shopify plus was for any e-commerce brand or retail are doing above a million dollars.

^{Joe Fox (03:01.337)}
Hahaha!

_{Martyn Boddy (03:26.838)}
So that was very broad. So a million up to hundreds of millions. The initial challenge that I saw was there was an existing ecosystem in the market around what is enterprise e-commerce software, which I'd seen from American Express and from Adobe. And with that comes a certain service level expectation. And to provide a certain service level expectation costs money.

^{Joe Fox (03:48.951)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (03:53.58)}
You know, we didn't have all of the AI tools and all of the automation that we have today. So we needed to give that level of service to these brands who have an expectation that's already been set by the market at a very coming from a very different economic standpoint because Shopify plus was very, very cost effective. That was the first challenge. How do we build ecosystem of agencies and SIs and services partners?

^{Joe Fox (04:12.012)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (04:20.61)}
where we can provide that level of service that they come to expect from an e-commerce platform to be able to do things together like enablement, co-marketing, account-based marketing, joint selling, and so on at the different cost perspective of where Shopify Plus was at the time. So that would be the first challenge that I entered that role thinking about. But it wasn't the reason I joined Shopify.

^{Joe Fox (04:44.856)}
tell us a little bit more about that then. I'd love to hear more on that.

_{Martyn Boddy (04:50.062)}
Yeah, I I kind of look back over my career and I at least like to think that I joined businesses because of the product. And I worked with American Express when, and still it's like American Express is a great business and still like does fantastic work in the market. they had a great product at the time and a great customer base, a lot of loyalty in the industry. And it was just a great place to be. Similar with Magento.

^{Joe Fox (05:00.386)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (05:17.646)}
You know, Magento back in the early north teens, whatever we call that decade, was the e-commerce platform of choice for a certain large segment of businesses. And it was great. And, the advances that Magento made over what was previous in the north were fantastic and priced well, delivering huge install base and so on. And I was getting to a point with Magento where I was

^{Joe Fox (05:22.901)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (05:27.372)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (05:47.444)}
seeing the product not innovate as rapidly as I thought the customer or client base would expect it to. So I started looking into the industry and into the market, say, okay, what's actually happening here? What's going to be happening in five years time? How are people going to want to engage with technology from both the B2B users or the client and the consumer? If the consumer's not spending,

^{Joe Fox (05:57.152)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (06:15.95)}
the B2B client doesn't exist and then platforms don't exist. So like seeing it all the way through to the end and Shopify had reached out to me in early 2015 and I kind of turned them down.

^{Joe Fox (06:29.652)}
wow. I love that.

_{Martyn Boddy (06:33.102)}
It was very early. 2015 was a huge year. They launched plus like at the very end of 2014, I think, so it was very tiny and they went public in 2015. So a lot changed in that year. And by the time it got around to October, I was like, oh, it's time to look into Shopify.

^{Joe Fox (06:35.352)}
Yes. Yes. Stupally. Yep.

^{Joe Fox (06:53.864)}
Yeah.

_{Martyn Boddy (06:55.414)}
I did and part of my discovery was several journeys up to Toronto and Waterloo, where Plus was headquartered at the time, really to meet with the team and more importantly to see the technology. And they showed me the platform, they showed me it working and they told me their commercials and they told me about their partner ecosystem at the time. I was the, the size of the opportunity in front of me, which I saw almost immediately was, was huge. And I just thought you...

^{Joe Fox (07:08.949)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (07:24.492)}
you've got a great product that's intuitive, that people are going to want to work with. And what you're lacking right now is your go-to-market and this sort of perception of your product and brand that you have at the time of being very much an SMB platform, which I thought my skillset would play really well too.

^{Joe Fox (07:33.066)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (07:44.097)}
Well, it clearly did. It clearly did. I love that. And I think, you know, you're, you're very, and this is another compliment to you. find you're very articulate when you explain things. And I really liked the way that you've just explained that it's like the timing, the, the product, the people there, and then being able to see exactly where Martyn fits into this and takes it to GTM. So I really love that.

Can I ask, you know, looking, looking back now and seeing all the evolution that that's kind of happened since you stepped away from Shopify and everything like that. Obviously it's a very proud kind of a good sense of pride that comes looking and saying, Hey, I really helped, you know, get this to where it's at now and, and, and, and hand it over to a level where it can be taken even further. So do you still keep in contact with a lot of that? Because is it a pretty tight.

ecosystem of the original people within that sort Shopify realm.

_{Martyn Boddy (08:49.281)}
It's definitely evolved a lot. So something that I'm really proud of and really love to see in the market is that a lot of that original partner team that we put together back in the 2016 to 2018, most of them are still within the ecosystem and at great places. There's people at Maze Group, there's people at Global E, there's people at Domain. They've really sort of spread out across the ecosystem. And I think that's really

testament to firstly the product that is Shopify and the success that Shopify saw, but also just the values and the approach of those people. You know, they're good at what they do and they're spreading their knowledge and their approach like throughout this ecosystem. And as you and I know, Joe, like e-commerce is an ecosystem play. No one's buying one product in a vacuum. So it's great to see. Yeah, I keep them.

^{Joe Fox (09:39.477)}
Absolutely.

^{Joe Fox (09:43.349)}
Absolutely. No, I love to hear that Martyn and you know, talking of that and speaking of the successes that everyone who was in there during that original time, let's dive into the success you're having now. I really like the conversations you and I have had since you've been doing the consultancy side of things and really diving in. I love your approach to everything. I really want to kind of telegraph some of that to the audience today.

Give us a little bit of an overview. Like what does the day to day look like? Who is your ICP and how are you working? And how are you translating all of this extensive knowledge you have in e-commerce, in GTM, in partnerships today?

Martyn Boddy (10:30.606)
would say that from my ICP perspective, it's SaaS technology companies and digital agencies who are looking to get into that next phase of growth. And whether that is an agency looking to scale beyond 5 million or beyond 15 million and upwards and so on, or if it's a SaaS technology company looking to break into another ecosystem or another geo or introduce different product lines and so on. And they just need help.

structuring it and structuring their business and watch their approach and go to market B for this to be successful. So, you know, I've spent a long time on the product side, like more or less my entire career was working with with product companies, whether it was payment gateways, ecommerce platforms or banks, you know, really early in my career. And the one thing that I hadn't done was was actually worked at an agency or a services company.

^{Joe Fox (11:23.176)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Martyn Boddy (11:25.484)}
I had a pretty good idea of what it was like having spent so much time with them over the last 20 years, but never been in sight. So before I started my consulting business, which I'm working on now, I spent two years with a digital agency, a Canadian based agency called Diff, who went on to be sold to VML or WPP Group. Really for me, that was to validate my thinking and just to...

^{Joe Fox (11:46.675)}
Yes, yep, yep.

_{Martyn Boddy (11:54.278)}
see what it was like from the other side of the table and understand what motivates digital agency. How do they work inside? What does alignment look like? How do they see their partners and so on? How do they see their clients and they see the industry? So really I'm coming from a point now where I've seen most sides except client side. I've never been around. Maybe one day, you never know.

^{Joe Fox (12:16.241)}
Yes.

Yeah.

_{Martyn Boddy (12:20.622)}
I've seen most sides at most levels of growth. Shopify plus was about 40 people when I joined that team and when I left it was 1500. I've seen agencies and worked with agencies that are five people all the way through to acquisition, which is a goal of a lot of agencies. So I have a perspective on where most businesses currently are.

^{Joe Fox (12:24.733)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (12:30.439)}
Yep. Yep.

^{Joe Fox (12:39.953)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (12:48.15)}
So if you're coming to me and you're already a public company, I have a perspective on how that business works and how that operates and, you know, the difference between being one big team and being aligned teams and so on. And if you're a 30 person agency who's looking to, you know, break that 5 million revenue mark, I've worked through that with agencies at Shopify too and understand how the agency sees their channel partners and so on. So I have many points of view and, you know,

^{Joe Fox (12:59.676)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (13:17.358)}
My ICP really is a SaaS technology company or digital agency who recognizes that they need some support and want to take it to that next level and just wants someone to be very consultative with them and real.

^{Joe Fox (13:27.004)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (13:34.384)}
And I love that. And I think that's such a key factor to you and what you do is the realness. I can't translate that enough. I hope everyone who's watching this feels that because when you are in Martyn's presence, it is a presence and there's so much realness there and there's so much knowledge there and so much talent there. And I think anyone who is working with you, Martyn, and I say this honestly and not just because we're friends,

is so lucky to gain access to those perspectives and to gain access to that knowledge. you know, being in this presidency role now, but coming from the partnership side of things and being in partnerships for so long, you and I both know within this ecosystem, there's either agencies that are going to be aware of the fact that they don't know everything and they need help and they need to be able to get that external perspective to scale and potentially exit.

Or there's the agencies that are going to try and do it themselves and think they know better and think they can just kind of white knuckle their way to the, to the finish line. And, and unfortunately, you know, as you and I see sometimes on the flip side, a lot of agencies just don't make it. And I think, you know, one of the things I love doing with the podcast is highlighting voices such as yourself because

You really can be that guiding light or that beacon for the agencies that are prepared to listen, take the advice from people who've done that before in a multitude of areas and, and, and verticals and really go in the direction that needs to go in. Because I think the, there is so much happening. You know, I try not to do the whole AI talk in all of these podcasts, but it is the a hundred pound gorilla in the room, a thousand pound gorilla in the room.

There are so many agencies that are just going to get caught up and left behind because they haven't truly worked with someone such as yourself to find what their USP is, to find who their exact market is, to really get down and niche and focus on what is driving their business forward and get rid of everything that isn't serving them. So I think that's so important. On that note, Martyn, where is the best place?

^{Joe Fox (15:56.019)}
for everyone to connect with you because I'm lucky enough that I can text you or message you on LinkedIn. And obviously I get to see your content, but for the audience that are watching, and as I mentioned, have, you know, we have over 150 partners globally, agencies who I know who are seeing this and being like, Oh, I wish I had that opportunity. So what is the best way for people to engage with your content, to get in touch with you and potentially work with you.

_{Martyn Boddy (16:23.458)}
Yeah, yeah, a couple of ways really. So one obviously LinkedIn, you know, I have a fairly unique name, although I think there is another brand in e-commerce with a very similar name. We had a brief chat once about how strange it was. You can type me in and I'm probably come up pretty quickly. But also I have my website, which is thisisupgrade.com, which is kind of a fun little website, you know, go and play around with it as...

^{Joe Fox (16:32.166)}
there is. Nice.

_{Martyn Boddy (16:51.17)}
some AI therapists you can talk to and you can downgrade the website. And it's it's very Apple OS circa 2005.

^{Joe Fox (17:01.394)}
I love that. I love that.

and just so everyone in the audience knows, simply go down to the show notes. Both of those links will be in there. I think too, you know, I am going to really recommend the LinkedIn side of things. Reason being is I feel based on your experience, based on your knowledge, based on you being on all sides, the insights that you provide on everything that's happening at the moment are really good way of cutting through the noise because

You know, similar to what we're saying around AI being everywhere at the moment. AI is really destroying the LinkedIn algorithm feed. And it's unfortunate because, you know, people who are putting out authoritative content like yourself, unfortunately, sometimes it's difficult to find that or for it to even show up in your feed now. So I'm definitely going to recommend for the audience at a minimum to please go.

go connect with Martyn on LinkedIn and keep an eye out for that content. And there's a treasure trove of really good articles that have been posted recently as well to check out. Martyn, before we wrap things up, I know that you and I could speak forever. I definitely want to make sure that there's a part two of this, but there's two things I want to kind of cover. Firstly, talking about AI, talking about

I think it is a lovable that just released this new AI integration. I don't, I don't want to get fixated on AI, but I do, I would love to get your predictions. Like, what do you see happening in the market, both from a, SAS perspective. So like, like a company like Growave as an example, and then from an agency perspective, like what, what do you see being the two biggest changes?

^{Joe Fox (18:56.705)}
over the next 12 months for both of those kind of verticals, so to speak.

_{Martyn Boddy (19:01.678)}
Yeah, think so. Firstly, I think the next 12 months, there's still going to be a lot of confusion. I think there's a lot right now from a agency brand SaaS side. still a fair bit of like fear of missing out. Like we need to, we need to start with AI. It's here. We need to get going, but that's great. Yes, you probably do. But do you understand how you're going to work?

^{Joe Fox (19:19.802)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (19:28.19)}
And there's increasingly AI tools. it's as you said, it's flooding the market. There's so many now. So I think understanding, know, why are you using AI in the first place? You know, what is the core purpose of using it? Also, are you using it in the right way? Like, are you being compliant with it? Like with your different regulations for different types of businesses, different geographies, and so on, different jurisdictions everywhere.

^{Joe Fox (19:39.396)}
Yes. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (19:47.974)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (19:55.822)}
So compliance, why are you using it? then how are you going to apply it? And I think a lot of digital agencies exists because brands know about their product. They understand retail. They're product people. This is why they are here. And they work with digital agencies because digital agencies understand that go to market and that brand and that connection with the consumer and putting them all together. So if you're going to be using AI,

^{Joe Fox (20:10.202)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (20:25.708)}
why and how are you going to be using it and who's it for? So I think that the next 12 months will still be a little gray area with AI, but I think there's going to be expectations around efficiency. I think people also feel that there's going to be a lot of cost savings that come with AI, which there could be, but I also feel like what we will see as soon as...

^{Joe Fox (20:46.223)}
Mmm, yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (20:54.528)}
AI adoption really has an uptake. The cost of AI itself was going to grow. So, you know, I almost like in LA now, I think I'm in New York soon. have the, the self-driving taxis, the AI of taxis almost cost the same as Uber. You know, so are we going to get, are we going to get to a world, you know, somewhere down the line where there is an AI agency?

^{Joe Fox (21:07.407)}
Yes, yep.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

_{Martyn Boddy (21:21.72)}
which has one CEO and no other employees, but costs the same as a traditional agency. And then what's the difference? You know, and I think that that difference is going to be like creativity in the use of the tooling and understand markets and understanding the industry in which you're focusing on. And I think it's not, it's not going to be enough for any services provider or to a lesser extent, SaaS technology company.

^{Joe Fox (21:31.055)}
Mmm.

^{Joe Fox (21:36.738)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (21:51.608)}
to say, we work in the Shopify ecosystem, or we work in the... You have to start relentlessly focusing on your comments.

^{Joe Fox (22:00.286)}
Yeah, I love that so much. And, you know, a couple of guests that we've had on here, I believe, you know, Brendan Rawson over at Andzen and I really like when agencies niche, like this is what I do. Like, Jason Young over at Ballistic is a really good example of that too. It's like, this is the space we know. This is the industry we love.

_{Martyn Boddy (22:08.91)}
So, yeah.

^{Joe Fox (22:24.354)}
This is exactly what we do. We don't step out of this box for anyone, no matter how attractive the check might look, because this is the industry we bring the most insight and value to. And I think, you know, to your point, it's like, there is such a overwhelming amount of like flooding of tools and just every single day, I feel like there's a few people sending me a different AI tool. And I think

You know, to your point, the next 12 months of uncertainty, it'll be really interesting to see which of these tools is still standing. And to your point, who are the service providers or the agencies that are really using those key tools in the best way possible? Because I kind of almost see it. And I'm not, I'm not sure if you agree with this Martyn, but I kind of see it like when Google AdWords was the thing, right? It's like.

You have Google AdWords, which is the technology and the medium that's going to bring more customers in. But then there was only a certain number of agencies who really mastered that technology and, who understood that technology inside and out. And I think this is going to be another scenario of that, except there's going to be a hundred different Google, Google AdWords kind of tools. So yeah, that's, that's kind of my take.

_{Martyn Boddy (23:45.455)}
Yeah. Yeah, it's who like the customer buys into an ecosystem, whether that is an AI ecosystem, a commerce ecosystem, an ERP ecosystem, and they are looking for service providers who are at different levels within that ecosystem. There's going to be the expectation that the perceived top service provider is going to be the most expensive. Not everyone wants or needs the most expensive, almost comprehensive.

^{Joe Fox (24:03.939)}
Yes.

_{Martyn Boddy (24:14.284)}
You know, so there's going to be, I think there's going to be a space for everyone, but if you don't understand what your customer needs in terms of the technology that you're representing as a service provider, you're doing something wrong.

^{Joe Fox (24:27.276)}
Yeah, no, that's really, really like incredibly valuable. Martyn, this is the question that I always love to ask everyone in our ecosystem because I think obviously there's a ton of benefits to this ecosystem, right? Like I feel like we're all friends, we all get along, even if we're working at what's perceived as competing, know, agency services, SaaS vendors, we're all friends and we all help each other out. And I really like that.

I think that's, that's incredibly special. But the other thing about our industry, which I think there probably isn't as many, there's industries that travel a lot, but I have to say our e-commerce industry, our Shopify ecosystem, we all travel a lot. I feel like we all see each other at different trade shows and different events all over the country and all over the world. So I love to ask everyone this and especially someone such as yourself.

I'm very interested to hear what the answer is. What is something and you can't say a person that you cannot travel without, whether it be for work or for personal and fun and leisure.

_{Martyn Boddy (25:41.871)}
Well, I'm obviously not going to say my phone, but definitely that. It is connected to my phone though, like physically. I have my little bag of cords. Like I'm very techy. Like I have all different USBs. I have all the different plugs and outlets. Like I need to make sure everything can be, this is something I should work on in myself. I need to make sure everything is powered at all time and I couldn't be connected at all times. So I have this bag.

^{Joe Fox (25:56.484)}
yeah.

^{Joe Fox (26:10.359)}
Yeah.

_{Martyn Boddy (26:12.677)}
I bought it a way luggage like, I don't know, 10 years ago, whatever it was. came in this little mesh bag, put a suitcase scuff cleaner in it or something. And that's my little cords bag. it kind of just like goes, gets thrown in with my passport. It sounds really boring and a fun sweater.

^{Joe Fox (26:22.775)}
Yup. Yup.

^{Joe Fox (26:28.831)}
I love that. I love that.

Okay, a fun sweater? Okay.

_{Martyn Boddy (26:34.958)}
Yeah, because people are like, your sweater. I'm like, yeah, this is my sweater.

^{Joe Fox (26:38.826)}
Yeah, I like that. I like that. It's a good conversation starter. And, I mean, to the point with the cords, I couldn't agree more. feel like I've gotten into this habit now of, I always carry like a U S kind of plug. Obviously when I moved from Australia, it was like replacing all these plugs that I had, had like 50, you know, Apple charges and I'm replacing all the plugs for them. But so what I've started doing now,

It's off camera. Otherwise I grab it, but I got what I have found to be the most like robust, heavy duty, portable travel battery that, that you can actually take on flights because I found out there's some that you can't take on flights. I had one confiscated from me, by TSA cause it was slightly too big, but this one is like the largest one that you can take. And it is the best because it doesn't matter if you're like,

If get to Europe and you're like, I haven't got the adapter or they don't have the USB or the USB-C adapters. This has all of that. So I'll send you a link to that. Cause I feel like that might fit well with all of the chords. Cause you can plug all of them into that and you'll never run out of connections.

_{Martyn Boddy (27:52.233)}
arrive on my doorstep tomorrow.

^{Joe Fox (27:54.122)}
Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Martyn, look, as I said, I really would love to do a part two of this. I, know, on a personal level, I really respect you as a human being. And on a professional level, I've just always enjoyed our conversations and your insights. And I think you bring so much value to the ecosystem. So I'll make sure all of the links are there. Everyone can connect with you. But thank you for coming on.

Like honestly, I really looked forward to this episode. I, I'm very lucky in this podcast that I get to speak to so many people that I respect and like, but this, this has been high up on my list of wanting to have you on. So thank you, mate, for coming on board. was, it was really good to catch up and good to have you on board.

_{Martyn Boddy (28:41.551)}
Appreciate you saying that. This was great. Always happy to chat to you.

^{Joe Fox (28:45.023)}
Thank you so much, Martyn really appreciate it. Or audience. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. As you can tell. And as I've said a thousand times just on this podcast, Martyn is an absolute powerhouse in this Shopify ecosystem and in the eco system of e-commerce in general. So please, I encourage you to connect with him on LinkedIn. If you're an agency or a sass vendor that's going through some of the issues that we spoke about.

_{Martyn Boddy (28:48.303)}
Thank you.

^{Joe Fox (29:11.849)}
and going to be facing some of these issues in the next 12 months and uncertainty that we spoke about having someone to really guide you through that someone such as Martyn who's been there done that scaled exited being through tremendous amounts of growth is going to help you fast track whatever your goals are. So I really encourage you to reach out and connect with them. And until next time, thank you for tuning in to another episode of retain growth thrive, the grow wave podcast. I'm your host, Joe Fox, and I'll see you again soon.