Leah Nurik: CEO & Co-Founder of Brandi AI

^{Joe Fox (00:01.508)}
Hey everyone, Joe Fox here from Growave. Today I'm joined by Leah Nurick from My Brandy AI. Leah is an absolute expert in AI. We've had some incredible people come on the podcast and talk about AI, whether it's AI from an SEO perspective, how to utilize AI in your business. But I think today's really going to be a pretty, quite a good masterclass on AI and what we can expect in the future and what businesses should be doing now.

to focus on AI. without further ado, Leah, welcome to the podcast. Are you able to just tell us a little bit about your background and how you got started?

_{Leah Nurik (00:36.82)}
Yeah, hey Joe, thanks for having me on. Yeah, I co-founded Brandy AI after running a marketing agency for 14 years, focused on PR, customer acquisition, product marketing, and go-to-market strategy. And before that, I ran emerging markets for Motorola Enterprise in a variety of new sectors during the mobile boom.

Software is near and dear to my heart as well as storytelling and customer acquisition. So here we are.

^{Joe Fox (01:12.821)}
Absolutely. Yeah, that's that's quite a career and I can relate on the agency side of things. I originally had an agency in Australia that I sort of sold off before I moved into more of the sass and that sort of thing. So I really like that. And I feel like there's a really good progression story there. So Leah, can you tell me a little bit about I know, you know, every everyone is talking about AI, a lot of people getting quite well versed in it.

A lot of people have been experiencing it for a little while, but can you tell me a little bit around why you started Brandy AI and why you started it when you did?

_{Leah Nurik (01:53.986)}
Yeah, so when I was talking to clients when I ran my agency, we started realizing that there was a need that search was changing, right? So PR was often, and storytelling was often associated with media coverage. It might not have necessarily impacted search in the traditional sense of like, hey, I'm going out and I'm looking for the best running shoes and here's a blue link. And then I'm going to click on the blue link where now

I like to think about the answer that comes back. It's like a real answer that synthesizes signals out there. And we started to see that owned content as well as earned media, as well as other actions that were being taken off domain or off the domain you own, including influencers and things like that, being woven into the answer in a way that there was nuance and subtext.

that was telling the story of the brand and it was out of control of the brand. They didn't have any, they didn't know why, they didn't know where, they didn't know how. And so we started trying to solve that problem. And then when we did, we cracked the code, I think to a certain extent, but it really, I spent so much of my career talking to companies about not just authentic storytelling, but being true to your mission and living.

^{Joe Fox (02:57.642)}
Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (03:22.798)}
really living the story that you're telling and making sure you're bringing to market product that impacts people's lives. And that can be anything from the clean makeup brand to the growth marketing platform and the customer acquisition platform. All of these things have a way of positively impacting people's lives in the way that they do their jobs or how they just go about living the values that they have. And so

There's such an incredible opportunity for brand marketers, for PR people, and for brands who really care about delivering authentic products that impacts people to be playing a role in telling these stories. And so that's kind of what got me super jazzed. And that's why we're here and why it's been a crazy ride and enjoying it so much.

^{Joe Fox (04:12.191)}
I love that. love that. And, you know, I really love to hear that because, you know, the authenticness and the authentic storytelling and the essence of a brand being told, I think is so important. And I think a lot of people, when they think AI, they just think machines bots, like there's no kind of like human element to it. But I completely agree with your thoughts. It's like,

there is this way of being able to authentically tell a brand story and it help you on AI. I think, you know, that will only become more and more important. And I think, you know, most entrepreneurs and most brands, you know, correct me if I'm wrong from your experience, but I feel like they all start out with a mission and it's usually to help people. I think, you know, making profits and having a good business is a by-product of helping more people and helping more of your audience.

_{Leah Nurik (05:03.992)}
Mm-hmm.

^{Joe Fox (05:10.876)}
So can you tell me a couple of key things that you think, you know, when you're considering AI optimization and those sorts of things, can you tell me a couple of those key things that you think brains should do from an authenticity standpoint that will in turn help them on AI?

_{Leah Nurik (05:29.73)}
Yeah. so one of them is, you know, don't try to trick it. I mean, it, you know, we, we might think you and I, we might think, well, that's obvious, right? But there, there was a whole movement for a long time around SEO about like, okay, how do I trick, trick it into giving me the keyword as opposed to authentically creating content that made you rank for the keyword. Right. And so this is not that.

^{Joe Fox (05:57.051)}
Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (05:59.235)}
Do not trick it because do not your intent, just like your intent when you do something and you make a mistake, you know, as long as your intent was good, you know, you're good, right? Ethically, think. But do not do that. And if you are trying to do that, you got to get that out of your head. So you have to approach your AI or your GEO or your AEO, whatever you want to call it strategy with that authentic

^{Joe Fox (06:09.51)}
Yeah. Yeah.

_{Leah Nurik (06:28.948)}
mission of storytelling. And it is one dimension of authentic brand strategy. know, GEO and AO, it's my favorite one. That's why I do this all day. But it is a component of that. So don't be short sighted. Don't just try to put out a whole bunch of crap that AI slop. Don't write only with AI. Don't do that.

^{Joe Fox (06:39.907)}
Yeah. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (06:53.307)}
Yes.

Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (06:56.61)}
because think about it, an AI answer is a analysis and a return of what already exists. You're doing what you're doing because it's innovative and new and mission driven. So if you're utilizing AI in order to write that content only, then what you're doing is you're just regurgitating.

^{Joe Fox (07:09.826)}
Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (07:24.096)}
stuff that exists, so that's not unique and creative and that doesn't future-proof your brand. So that's step one. Sorry to be verbose on that, but I feel very strongly about it.

^{Joe Fox (07:30.584)}
No, no, no, that's fantastic. And no, no, that's absolutely fantastic. And I love that. Two reasons I love that one is triggered some core memories for me of, you know, our agency in Australia used to do a lot of SEO and we did it organically and we really focused on copywriting and getting PR, whether it's online or offline and really, really good like storytelling and being creative with it to your point. But then there were other agencies that we would constantly

you know, potentially lose business too, but they were doing like what's called turned a black hat SEO. And then, you know, doing all sorts of things to try to hack the algorithm. So that that's really cool to kind of hear. Well, it's not cool to hear that people are doing it, but it's, it's interesting to hear that that kind of parallel exists. And then to your point, I think, you know, being authentic and creative is, is really cool. And I think it's, I just hope that it doesn't go to this stage where people do.

less of that because they're so reliant on AI for copywriting and those sorts of things.

_{Leah Nurik (08:35.255)}
Yeah, mean, parallels for some people's approaches are, they're definitely there. And, but the thing is, is that if it sounds like you and you and I were both around long enough to remember when that stopped working and, and people got their websites taken down and, they lost their keywords and all of these horrible things that happened. bet your clients that when you were doing authentic storytelling, that didn't happen to them.

^{Joe Fox (08:49.932)}
Yes, yes, quickly. Yeah.

_{Leah Nurik (09:04.653)}
And so it's not only the best thing to do for future proofing your brand and the best thing to do to tell the right story. It's also, it's kind of the right thing to do, you know, and not to be too like, you know, Pollyannaish and Contean ethics forward here. But if you're intent when you deliver product.

^{Joe Fox (09:04.68)}
Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (09:28.079)}
I'm sure this is the case with your customers. You have amazing customers that are delivering innovative products that are affecting people's lives. They all started their companies because they believed in what they were doing. Don't let yourself go down the tricky trick path because it will hurt your brand in the long run. We just saw that there were changes in the Google algorithm that took some of those tricks for AI on commercial and corporate websites and it just stopped utilizing them.

^{Joe Fox (09:38.869)}
Absolutely.

_{Leah Nurik (09:57.914)}
Do what is right, speak to your customers, and your brand will do great, and you will have higher customer retention because they connect with your values and they know that they're not being fed fake empathy. Imagine if you have a terrible crisis, if you're a data leak or God forbid, you're a makeup brand and you have to have a recall because there's something toxic, whatever it is. Imagine if you're a consumer.

and you receive something that you know is AI that's trying to apologize to you. Sorry, I'm never buying from you again. You've completely wasted all of your sweat, equity, and your brand. So there is a way to do it efficiently and to make those gains, but to also continue to connect with customers that's got a future proof of your brand and help you grow. And that, think, is one of the things, another one of the things that's incredibly exciting about being in the world that we're living in now in marketing.

^{Joe Fox (10:27.215)}
Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (10:35.57)}
Absolutely.

_{Leah Nurik (10:53.677)}
that the brands have to be forced. I was just going to say that the brand, not forced, you will be rewarded if you do it that way. So the most successful companies will be the ones that are leading with mission and an authentic ability to deliver great product.

^{Joe Fox (10:53.685)}
Absolutely. Oh, sorry.

^{Joe Fox (11:11.901)}
I love that. I love that. And so, you know, if you were to just give, you know, some of the some of the brands of grow waves that are listening might be very early on their journey. Some of them may be, you know, enterprise, as you kind of mentioned earlier, would you say that, you know, creating vision led content or audience led content or what how would you summarize kind of like

what the best content that the brands of all sizes should be focused on.

_{Leah Nurik (11:44.098)}
So for geo and AI search is a couple of things. One is it's really important to know for your specific market, what domains or outlets, whether it's PR or review sites or Reddit or LinkedIn are the most influential because every market is different. So with Brandy, not to oversell Brandy, but with Brandy, you can see which domains in your market are the most effective. So when you look at that, then it helps you realize, okay, what kind of action should I take?

to increase, like if LinkedIn's showing up number three, then do I need to publish more LinkedIn articles from my SMEs? If PCMag is doing a review of all the best headphones and they're coming up number four in the site of domains, I better talk to my PR firm and have that elevated on the press list and maybe give them exclusive first peek at my new product. And then from a content creation standpoint,

^{Joe Fox (12:27.955)}
Mm-hmm.

_{Leah Nurik (12:43.291)}
the ability to actually, and we, again, we do this in brandy, but there's certain type of content that AI really likes and it's thoroughly researched. also have over 400 million data points in our product that we can kind of triangulate, like what's showing up and what is it. But yeah, so we were able to like do a bunch of analysis on that, but it's also, you know, there's third party research on this, that what kind of, gets found and read and summarized.

^{Joe Fox (12:59.078)}
Wow.

^{Joe Fox (13:09.533)}
Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (13:11.779)}
The ability, like we built this intelligence engine that actually goes out and identifies buyer personas, emotional triggers, frustrations. Why do people buy? Why don't they buy? What motivates them? What are they happy about? What are they incredibly frustrated about? You know, it could be anything from, you know, makeup, lip gloss, to coffee cups, to enterprise software, to...

phones, whatever it is, or robotic machining. I mean, it's really across the board. And when you can listen to that, you can get insights about returning those types of content, like an editorial calendar of what you should put out there. And that is also a great way to surface maybe things that you're not paying attention to in product marketing. Like we're able to capture not just the listening, but also

How does the AI break down those questions, which gives you insight into signals about how search is changing? For example, if you're a convenience store chain like Sheetz or something, or Royal Farms over here in the DC area, what right now, not to date our podcast, but we're in middle of the Iranian incursion or war right now. If you listen to this in five years, hopefully that's not still going on.

^{Joe Fox (14:25.176)}
Yes. Yep.

^{Joe Fox (14:31.098)}
Hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully that's resolved. Yes. Yeah.

_{Leah Nurik (14:33.088)}
Hopefully not. Yeah, hopefully that's resolved and gas isn't like this and everything's fine. anyway, moving on. if your sheets and three months ago, the search behavior of the potential customer that you had was very different, right? Now they're maybe they're searching about the lowest price of gas in my area, that kind of thing. So in order to take those signals and then shift your strategy and shift what you're delivering.

not just to get those eyeballs, but also to deliver what those customers want. You can see all that in the product, but also, you know, now you can deliver content that speaks to those pains as those pains change, because we know that the citations and the brands that come back are driven by things that are recent. So the most authoritative, the most credible, and the most recent answer to the question that is authoritative and credible. So that means one and done, nope.

This is an ongoing thing. So marketing organizations need to think about structuring their marketing activities to perpetually engage, produce content that speaks to those questions and how they change so that they can get the top spot for the latest answer and then increase their visibility in AI search.

^{Joe Fox (15:51.392)}
Absolutely. So, relevancy really is a key component of this, like staying relevant and with the times to be able to utilize that. Is that kind of correct?

_{Leah Nurik (16:06.384)}
Yeah, 100 % relevance to the most likely queries that people are putting in. Number one, and number two, recency. Like there was a recent study that came out, and we can see it in our product too. There was a recent study that came out that said that over 50 % of the citations, meaning where the AI gets the information for the answer, comes from were posted in the last 11 months.

^{Joe Fox (16:15.457)}
Mm-hmm.

^{Joe Fox (16:33.899)}
Wow. Wow.

_{Leah Nurik (16:35.832)}
Our data says even more. So that, mean, it's changing how you do marketing. You have to just, you have to keep feeding the world and the, not just the AI, but putting out content that is relevant, that speaks to the shifts in search, and you gotta keep doing it. It's not one and done. Okay, hey, I got the keyword for this link, and now all I have to do is maintain it. Nope, those days are gone.

^{Joe Fox (16:39.052)}
Wow.

^{Joe Fox (17:04.788)}
I love that. That's so cool to understand. mean, wow, that's much shorter period of time than I thought it might've been. So that's very interesting to hear. Leah, I personally wanna know more about the platform. So the audience is gonna have to learn more about it. tell me a little bit more about how the platform works in itself. there's, mean, you mentioned a few really amazing features to me and.

the millions and millions of data points. So I'd love to dig into that a little bit if that's okay.

_{Leah Nurik (17:37.359)}
Yeah, sure. it's so it's brandy, B-R-A-N-D-I. You can find us at mybrandy with an I dot A-I. And basically what we are is a brand intelligence, AI visibility and GEO platform. So what that means is you can utilize all of the data that you see in there to do brand research. Like how are you showing up? We have a patent pending sentiment hub that allows you to actually see and configure

like the themes that you want to track. So for the first time, if you're redefining what a pen is, right, like in your market and it's ergonomically correct and it never runs out of ink and it's, you know, made from sustainable materials, you can actually configure those themes and then you can see how, how does that impact positive and negative? How does it compare with other competitors, which is the first time ever anybody's been able to do that. And then draw through lines to actions for impact of like, Hey,

^{Joe Fox (18:31.392)}
Wow.

_{Leah Nurik (18:34.672)}
I went out and I got this piece of press coverage to define my new pen market. And it's got a 9.3 sentiment rating and it's for ergonomic correct. Wow. So you can imagine the micro moment of delight for that PR person or that marketing leader. It's awesome. I mean, we created this product for marketers by marketers. And we really understand, I think, about things that drive marketers. We tend to be pretty happy people.

^{Joe Fox (18:48.508)}
Absolutely.

_{Leah Nurik (19:01.882)}
We tend to be very positive. We tend to be really wanting to make impact. So we try to really embed that in the UX. So beside the sentiment piece, you can also see where am I showing up in AI search? Where am I not? How do I compare with my competitors? What domains are driving it in my market? Not just making me show up, but how can I make it better? Should I prioritize reaching out or doing syndicated advertising on these publications?

^{Joe Fox (19:02.142)}
Yes.

_{Leah Nurik (19:30.254)}
on these websites? I focus on user review websites, trust radius? If you're SaaS, should I be on G2? Are there influencers that, is there somebody sitting in their basement who's writing a whole bunch of blogs that I didn't even know about, sweatshirts? And he or she is a great hiker and he's figured out how to get his blog showing up on AI, which shockingly enough happens a lot.

So you can do your influencer strategy. And then in addition to that, we also have a huge suite of optimization tools. So things like, now that I know what I should write, because it will recommend to you, hey, you might want to think about this because a customer pains. And here is an outline that will embed all the principles of GEO. And then you have a human write it. And now I'm going to optimize it for maximum readability. And that can be tons of different types of content.

So we have all that embedded in our product. And then we also do page audits. So are these, is my website good to go for GEO? It's not the same as SEO. So there is a shift, and it can be overwhelming. That doesn't mean you need to build a brand new website. You can usually just make some changes to things and how things are structured, but Brandy will give you guidance on what to change and iterate with you on that so you can just increasingly get better and start seeing your

awareness go up. also gives you the ability to identify when search changes. So just like we were talking about gas prices, we're able to capture all those signals and then it will identify theme gaps of what's changing in consumer behavior. So if all of a sudden, you know, nobody needs, nobody wants to buy a plastic pen, they want to buy a sustainable products pen that's changing in search, it's going to identify that for you. So then you can shift your monitoring and then you can shift your message and

You can talk to product marketing and say, are we going to do that to go beat Bicpens against Leopens, right? So you can do a lot in there. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (21:32.656)}
Yup. Yup.

That's incredible. Honestly, I'm like blown away by that. That's such a powerful platform. I'm going to set up an account and check that out for another project I'm working on to be honest, because that's probably honestly one of the most unique and powerful platforms I've heard about in a long time. So I really love that. Leah for the audience, you know, if they want to. Yep.

_{Leah Nurik (22:00.314)}
Joe, I'll just say that again, we talk about mission. It really came from a bunch of people building this product from a mission to lift marketers up in this new era. It's so lovely to hear you say that because I think it is a really great platform, but I think it's also an embodiment of that desire to really empower marketers.

^{Joe Fox (22:22.949)}
Absolutely. And that comes across very clearly because it's like everything a marketer would want. So I love that. That's that's really cool. Really cool. And for the audience, Leah, there's two more things because I feel like we could talk for a very long time. But we've got to be brief and short just because of the format of the podcast. But I'd love to understand just because a lot of users, you know, of Growave will be watching the podcast.

_{Leah Nurik (22:33.318)}
Thanks.

^{Joe Fox (22:53.092)}
Reviews, where do they play a role in everything? Because I know that reviews have always kind of been somewhere that people feel that they can trust the output of a review. Word of mouth is really important, but I'd love to know how they fit into this equation. How to have in good reviews help, or if you have bad reviews, how do they hinder your GEO or AEO efforts?

_{Leah Nurik (23:19.825)}
So, okay, so there is a couple things. So it depends on the market. So for example, reviews like Google reviews for consumer products, they definitely pull in for sure. Another thing to think about, which is a review, maybe not a user review or a customer review, is product reviews. So places like PCMag, you know, that are more like editorial content or...

I do see Wirecutter for the New York Times show up a lot. The CNN ones, sometimes they do like the top 25 products more like consumer products. When it comes to B2B and software, G2 is, yeah, it's all over the place. Yeah, well, they just bought Captera. I do sometimes see Captera, but G2 is definitely top for all of our SaaS, for review programs. And then another thing, we don't traditionally,

^{Joe Fox (24:01.251)}
It's the Garter. Yeah, yep.

_{Leah Nurik (24:16.625)}
actually, shockingly, Yelp too. I see Yelp all the time and I was talking to a prospect, I was like, does anybody still use Yelp? And I was like, well, yeah, somebody did because they just posted a review two days ago and it's showing up. So these review sites, they're considered authoritative, so they do feed in very quickly. So if you have a negative thing and you want to do a program, it can actually really help. The other thing, which we don't traditionally think about as reviews, but they kind of are, is Reddit.

^{Joe Fox (24:19.48)}
wow, okay.

^{Joe Fox (24:24.608)}
Yeah, apparently. Yeah.

_{Leah Nurik (24:45.967)}
So for consumer, it actually shows up in most instances. So if somebody is talking about your platform in a positive way or a negative way, it will show up or it can. And with Brandy, you can actually see every thread in every site.

^{Joe Fox (25:06.454)}
Wow. Wow.

_{Leah Nurik (25:08.591)}
You could, we have a couple of companies using it for Reddit strategy. And you know, have to be very careful on Reddit. Like you can't be inauthentic, which I kind of love about Reddit. At least you have to be honest.

^{Joe Fox (25:17.791)}
Yes, I like it too. I don't have any other social media besides LinkedIn and Reddit and I don't have an account on Reddit. kind of just use it for those exact purposes of researching.

_{Leah Nurik (25:31.033)}
You lurk.

^{Joe Fox (25:32.403)}
I like, I'm a liker. But I stay out of the drama. I don't have no time for drama. So I know Reddit can be a bit drama fueled as well, similar to Twitter / X. Yeah.

_{Leah Nurik (25:41.689)}
Yeah, I mean, I

Somebody wrote about something on Brandy and I just liked it and I got like in a lot of trouble. But I had nothing to do with the person who wrote something about us. And I was like, okay, I'm not touching anything. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm just not writing anything or talking or liking anymore.

^{Joe Fox (25:53.237)}
Yup.

^{Joe Fox (26:03.58)}
Absolutely, absolutely. No, well, that was that was incredibly insightful. I mean, I think there's so many amazing points that you made and a lot of clear direction you gave to the audience. So thank you so much for that, Leah. Just lastly, where can people connect with you connect to a brandy AI if they're interested in trying out the platform? I'll make sure all those links are in the show notes. But what's the best place for people to reach you?

_{Leah Nurik (26:27.216)}
Go.

So you can follow me on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn, Leah Nurick. But if you'd like a brandy demo, you we'd love to give you one. Just come request a demo at My Brandy with an I.

to our customers is we're very adaptable. We really want to partner strategically with our customers. We have a 95 % conversion rate to contract after trial. the product works. So we'd love to show it to you and get your feedback, even if you don't buy it. It's a brand new world and listening to each other in order to deliver great product is going to be key to lift up all the marketers in the world. So come join us over here and give us your feedback.

^{Joe Fox (26:53.471)}
Wow. Wow.

^{Joe Fox (27:13.565)}
I love that. Thank you so much, Leah. Really, really appreciate your time. I will definitely be checking out the platform. I'm going to reach out for a demo or have my marketing team on another project I'm working on at the moment reach out because that sounds perfect. And I think it solves a lot of issues and I'm sure the audience agrees. So I have no doubt that they'll be reaching out for a demo and to talk to you, but Leah, thank you so much. Really appreciate you coming on.

Retain Grow Thrive from everyone at Growave. appreciate it and I'm sure the audience appreciate your time as well.

_{Leah Nurik (27:45.83)}
Thanks Joe, thanks everybody for listening.

^{Joe Fox (27:48.071)}
Thanks, Leah. Audience, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Retain Grow Thrive. I'm sure you got a lot of value out of that podcast with Leah. Go and check out my brandy AI.

mybrandy.ai I think it's a fantastic tool. think there's a lot that you can gain out of that. As I mentioned, I'm going to be checking it out. So no doubt I'll be posting about it on LinkedIn soon. But sounds like an incredible tool with a very, very good mission to be able to help other marketers navigate this new phase of AI and geo and a yo, etc, etc. So thank you for tuning into another episode. If it's a particular guest you would like to see, please mention them on the comments below and we'll do our best to get them on the

Thank you.

_{Joe Fox (28:39.684)}
Leah, that was fantastic. Thank you so much. Really, really.

^{Leah Nurik (28:42.8)}
Yeah, more than happy. Thanks so