Ty Hammond: Executive Mentor with One Mountain Leadership

^{Joe Fox (00:00.907)}
Hey, everyone, Joe Fox here, President at Growave. Welcome to another episode of Retain Grow Thrive. I'm super excited today. I have not only an amazing guest for all of you today, but someone who I actually think of now as a close friend. Not sure if you managed to catch mine and ties previous podcasts. But if you haven't, I'll make sure that's also linked in the show notes. But today I'm joined by my very, very, very good friend Ty Hammond.

He's an absolutely amazing person and human being but not only that, he's an expert in leadership and leadership coaching. So I know that there are a lot of leaders across a variety of fields in e-commerce, tech, anything in between that are watching today. So I think you're to get a lot of value out of this. So without further ado, I want to welcome my good friend Ty. Ty, thanks for being on the podcast.

_{Ty Hammond (00:54.198)}
Joe, it's my absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

^{Joe Fox (00:57.288)}
Absolutely. And can you just give I mean, obviously, you and I have an amazing rapport, I feel like we've known each other almost for our whole lives. It feels like because we've had such deep conversations, and I no doubt today will will, you know, yield a lot of fruit for the audience. But do you want to give a little bit about your background and sort of just so that the audience can be brought up to speed?

_{Ty Hammond (01:20.982)}
Yeah, let me see if I can sum this up within a reasonable amount of time.

^{Joe Fox (01:26.22)}
You're good, you're good. We've got time, my friend, we've got time.

_{Ty Hammond (01:29.902)}
I'll start by saying, you know, a lot of folks make their way to leadership coaching in different ways. I've really always been extremely interested in leadership and actively working with leaders really for the breadth of my career. Of course, it starts with my own passion for personal and leadership growth. Some of the first experiences that I had actually, rather than working with individuals, I was working with teams. So I was doing

^{Joe Fox (01:58.038)}
Yes.

_{Ty Hammond (01:59.286)}
some really incredible work through the Ford Foundation, had a very fundamental experience. In my early 20s, I was consulting with the Ford Foundation and there was, I won't say name any names here, but an amazing, amazing opportunity in rural communities and bringing together a massive amount of funding, something that really could have created very significant change. Long story short, I really saw this incredible project completely dissolve because of

the inability for the people at the helm to be able to work together effectively. That was what really inspired me to really begin to focus on working with teams. So that's how I initially cut my teeth in this world, so to speak, was really working with teams. And of course, as you work with teams, you begin working with leaders. Initially, I started using what I would call traditional leadership development approaches. And over time, I got pretty frustrated and I could give a

^{Joe Fox (02:33.695)}
Yep, yep.

_{Ty Hammond (02:58.69)}
Give an example of, you know, going into a train, a room full of 50 managers, for example, and really putting together a lot, you know, taking a lot of time, putting together a fantastic training, all the, all the best and incredibly engaging, walking out of there, everybody being extremely happy, feeling like they got so much out of it, coming back a couple of weeks later and saying what has changed and over and over and over again.

finding that the needle had not moved at all.

^{Joe Fox (03:30.375)}
Mmm, yes. Yeah, I can imagine that would be incredibly frustrating.

_{Ty Hammond (03:34.741)}
And it's this across the board. The data is out, right? Traditional leadership development approaches don't work. I imagine that anytime that I talk to anybody and I say this, I just see the heads nodding, you know, the, you know, it's typically the recall that like we retain the information that we've learned for only a couple of weeks and it goes right out the door like it never even happened, right?

^{Joe Fox (03:57.973)}
Yes, yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (03:58.627)}
So essentially, the traditional leadership development models, in the first 10 years of my career as I was offering them, I saw them not working. So I built something that does. It's called the true leadership approach. I'm happy to say, you know, tell a lot more about it here, but ultimately, it is filling what I think is the critical, what I call, capacity gap that's missing in traditional leadership development approaches.

^{Joe Fox (04:23.036)}
Absolutely. I mean, I can attest to that. I feel like with this short amount of time we spent together already, I feel like it's helped me, you know, dramatically in terms of my leadership style and approach and skill. And to your point, I find it so interesting the way that as humans, as we progress, we're kind of trained in this environment from school, you know, from such a young age to just retain this information, then go into a test environment.

regurgitate that information. And then to your point, it's completely gone. Whereas I think, you know, there's so much more that can be done around actually, you know, retraining the way that you are based upon learnings and actually actioning those learnings as opposed to just, you know, having to regurgitate them a short period of time later. So I think that's one of the amazing things, you know, that your program does really well, Ty. So,

_{Ty Hammond (05:18.168)}
Well, actually, could I just get to that point? actually, one of the challenges that I see, and you use the word training there, and this is one of getting really clear on the kinds of challenges that we actually have. So I'll just make this distinction pretty clearly because I think it can really help for our conversation. I make a really clear distinction between tactical and adaptive challenges. Tactical challenges are pretty straightforward.

^{Joe Fox (05:20.029)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (05:28.701)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (05:43.614)}
Yes.

_{Ty Hammond (05:47.617)}
You have a goal in mind. You know what's missing in order to get to that goal. You need to learn the knowledge that's missing. You need to do and apply the appropriate skill and I needed to practice it over time. It's fairly straightforward. Could be really complex, could be brain surgery. You might need to learn and practice a lot, but that is the method for that. For those kinds of challenges, if your challenge is truly a tactical, a training is gonna work because you can get what you need from the outside. Somebody can give you,

the information that you're missing. Somebody can teach you the skill that you do not know. However, if your challenge is adaptive, and I would say in management and in leadership and in life, the most critical obstacles to our gap is not simply missing knowledge or information or skills, it's a capacity gap, right? So an adaptive challenge is quite different.

^{Joe Fox (06:22.622)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (06:43.229)}
Yes.

_{Ty Hammond (06:45.518)}
It's not a goal. We're talking about growth, the potential, the capacity to actually do what we know needs to be done. If we attempt to solve an adaptive challenge, something that I call like, let me say an adaptive challenge, the answer is not what to do about it. It's who to become. An adaptive challenge actually presents an opportunity. It's telling us that we need to grow.

^{Joe Fox (07:08.828)}
Yes.

_{Ty Hammond (07:15.086)}
that we have the opportunity to grow. So if we attempt to solve that away, we've actually missed the opportunity for growth as something that I call the big trap. So the true leadership approach is accounting for that fundamental missing gap in leadership training. And ultimately what we're attempting to do is not fall into the trap of teaching people skills that they're not ready to use. It's a little bit of what I call like giving a sledgehammer to a baby. Maybe the sledgehammer.

^{Joe Fox (07:43.497)}
Yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (07:44.974)}
Maybe the sledgehammer is the perfect tool for the job. Baby's not gonna lift it, baby's not gonna use it. So it could be the perfect training, it could be like the most thoughtful, you know, incredible put together training that there is, but if you teach someone a skill that they're not ready to use, it's going to be a major waste of time, investment, resources.

^{Joe Fox (07:48.274)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (08:05.531)}
Absolutely. And thank you so much. Not just for myself, but for the audience. I know we rehashed that kind of earlier when we first sort of, you know, started having conversations regularly. But I really liked that distinction. And I think what I'd love to, you know, and I'm sure the audience is thinking the same thing. It's like, well, cool type that makes sense. You know, probably a lot of people watching, you know, e commerce marketers and they're saying,

a lot of the issues I have, you know, are tactical, right? So, you know, with the way the AI is changing and every single product that they're working with has different updates almost every other day, if not every other week. But what would you say ties is a really good way of identifying what those adaptive kind of gaps are? like, say, for example, someone watching today, they say, Hmm, how do I distinguish

you know what an adaptive gap is for me or what might that look like?

_{Ty Hammond (09:04.483)}
Yeah, it's a fantastic question. There's a couple signifiers. I would say in general, if a challenge is truly tactical, you're gonna learn, do and improve, right? So you learn the skill, right? You've got a problem. You're like, what do need to learn? You'll learn it and you do it. Now in learning process, a natural learning process, you're gonna experience the occasional setback. That's part of learning, right? But if you're attempting to, you know, and I'll, let's give the example of time management, right?

A lot of folks fall into the big trap and attempt to solve time management, an adaptive time management challenge with tactical time management tools. So if my challenge is actually adaptive for time management, let me just give an example. Here's a really clear tactical solution to time management, saying no to stuff.

^{Joe Fox (09:53.329)}
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (09:54.96)}
Pretty clear, right? Pretty straightforward. If for some reason you know what to do and you make incremental improvement, but not experience little setbacks, but total backslides into old behaviors, in other words, feeling stuck, you're likely dealing with an adaptive challenge.

^{Joe Fox (10:14.552)}
Absolutely, no, that's a great distinction. Great distinction.

_{Ty Hammond (10:18.159)}
Here's another one. If you are getting feedback that does not match your perception of reality, that's a pretty good indicator. Here's another one. If you have an intention to have a particular impact or result and you are consistently getting the opposite impact or result, ultimately what we're talking about with adaptive challenges and the reason that they cannot be solved tactically,

is because the information that is needed cannot be given to you from someone else or any external source. What is happening is there's something in your own inner world, your own thoughts, feelings, behaviors, reactivity, assumptions that you're not aware of. Nobody else can shake that into you. I wish it was possible. It requires you being able

^{Joe Fox (11:06.918)}
Saved you a lot of time I imagine.

_{Ty Hammond (11:10.529)}
Yeah, mean, boy, if we could figure that one out, imagine that being able to shake us up. But that's why we call it self-awareness, right? And we attempt to get there through asking for feedback, which is a fantastic thing to do. But boy, we don't want to rely on external feedback for our own self-awareness. That is a major liability.

^{Joe Fox (11:22.331)}
Yes. Yes.

^{Joe Fox (11:39.056)}
Yes, absolutely.

_{Ty Hammond (11:39.791)}
for our mobile.

^{Joe Fox (11:42.96)}
Yeah, no, that's fantastic, Ty. And I think, you know, I know a lot of people who are at varying stages of their kind of leadership journey, right? So like, I'm lucky to kind of, you know, mentor some younger people who are new to the tech world or relatively new to the tech world in varying roles. And then obviously I'm very grateful, you know, for this tech community to be friends with, you know, some CEOs have had some very successful exits and who are on a

scale and level of journey. And I think, you know, the term self-awareness can get thrown around quite a lot, just in general, with just, you know, general life and everything like that. So are you able to kind of describe what the ultimate, I guess, kind of level of self-awareness is? I know that's hard because it's not as quantitative, but

What would you say is a healthy check to know if your self-awareness is in line?

_{Ty Hammond (12:48.899)}
Well, it's a fantastic question. I'll do the best I can here and I'll talk about it. You know, it's interesting by talking about awareness. Awareness is, right? So we learn in through the true leadership approach, what awareness actually is, which is incredibly important to discern, because it is extremely easy to mistake what is not awareness for what is, right? So we begin by learning to become aware of the...

^{Joe Fox (13:12.101)}
Yes.

_{Ty Hammond (13:18.357)}
inner workings of our own mind, our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that we identify with that we often mistake for awareness. So in other words, we learn what awareness is by being able to notice with awareness what it's not.

^{Joe Fox (13:33.818)}
Yeah, no, no, it definitely, it definitely makes sense. And I think, you know, some of the earlier things around this space that I've learned, you know, similar to your teachings, I feel often a lot of people mistake their emotional state for their kind of, guess, current situation or their current thoughts and everything like that, whereas often, you know, it can be the opposite and vice versa. So I think there's a lot to unpack there. And I don't want to

I don't want to unpack it in the incorrect way.

_{Ty Hammond (14:04.762)}
Let me maybe provide, I think it's great to give an example here. So you've got a pair of glasses on right now. So if you look left and you look right and you look forward, everything that you see, it doesn't matter where you look, it doesn't matter how you look, everything that you see is determined by the filters of those glasses that you have on. Here's an example. You might say something like,

^{Joe Fox (14:08.376)}
Yeah. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (14:17.24)}
Yep. Yep.

^{Joe Fox (14:28.248)}
Yes, correct. Yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (14:34.64)}
Let's say I give you some feedback. I say, hey, Joe, what you're not doing, but hey, Joe, do you realize that you interrupt a lot during meetings? And you might say something like, I am totally aware of that. I hate that I do that. Or like some self judgment. That's not awareness. That is seeing what you're doing through the lens of self judgment that you are not aware of.

^{Joe Fox (15:03.235)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (15:03.93)}
that you're not seeing from what I would call natural awareness. So the way that awareness, we've got these filters, you've got these glasses on. And when I say the power of awareness is the ability to look at what you've been looking through. Now the interesting thing is we might be able to look at this, but do we realize that as soon as we look at that, that there's another pair of glasses here?

^{Joe Fox (15:26.692)}
Hmm. So, like, liars.

_{Ty Hammond (15:27.504)}
And a lack of self-awareness is like wearing a pair of glasses that totally filter and distort and determine everything that you see without having any idea whatsoever that you are wearing.

^{Joe Fox (15:43.256)}
Yeah, that sounds like a not so good existence, I imagine. think, yeah, that's powerful, Ty, and a very, very good way of explaining that to the audience. I wanna dive in now. Obviously, we've only got a short period of time to be able to cover this, and I know that the learnings you have are so expansive, and there's so much that everyone can gain from this. But I think what might be useful is like,

obviously anonymized, but do you want to talk maybe tie through like a journey of like, you know, one of your, you know, I would say students, I don't want to say reframe that with training, but you know, someone that you've worked very closely with on their leadership journey, what that looks like from the beginning, you know, perhaps when they had the multiple filters on of everything, and then kind of what that looked like when they

I guess, as we discussed on your podcast, the true leadership journey never really ends. It's ongoing kind of a thing, but let's take the audience through kind of like a beginning to not end, but a beginning to current state of a successful leadership journey.

_{Ty Hammond (16:55.704)}
Yeah, absolutely. I'll do my best here again to be succinct. I'd say over a year ago, I got contacted by a C-level executive who was actually in between roles. And for anybody who is out there in the job market, knowing the amount of frustration, self-doubt, the challenges that can come up as you're sending out resume after resume and...

contacting recruiters and all that stuff and just the defeatedness of being ghosted and all of these things. Well, this C-level executive had the foresight to acknowledge that he could utilize some leadership growth and personal, I'd say leadership personal growth is the same thing, ultimately, prior to being in a leadership position. And he was realizing that he was coming up against, and through our conversation, some real adaptive challenges, even when he was going into the interview process, right?

^{Joe Fox (17:41.335)}
Yes, yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (17:52.773)}
So in other words, going in and having an interview where he thought it went really well, and he's like, but I didn't get a call back. what the, there's that indicator I was telling you before, right? Like you think it went really well, but then you get totally the opposite or right? Like what's going on? Something's missing here. That's a pretty good indicator.

^{Joe Fox (18:11.33)}
Absolutely. This sounds like some of my friends were dating just as an FYI. yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (18:16.165)}
Yeah. And ultimately what adaptive challenges comes down to are blind spots, assumptions, and limits that we are completely unaware of. So let me put it this way. Every single one of us is responding appropriately in every single moment to the reality that we see. The benefit of becoming more aware and seeing more accurately

is that the more accurately that you perceive reality, the more appropriately you will respond. To the extent that you are not aware of your own blind spots, assumptions, and limits, what you will be responding to is through a filter that will have you solving for a problem that doesn't actually exist out there, but only exists in your mind. Case in point with this particular executive and with many, many of the leaders that I work with, right?

^{Joe Fox (19:07.04)}
Yes. Yep.

_{Ty Hammond (19:14.225)}
is like an over preparation. Anybody done that? Over preparing. Over preparing in order to what? To look confident. That is always going to have the opposite effect, right? Attempting to be is the big trap, right? You cannot attempt to be. You can't do being. Anytime that you attempt to be, fill in the blank.

^{Joe Fox (19:19.522)}
Yep.

_{Ty Hammond (19:44.934)}
The attempt is what people will see. So you can over-prepare your butt off, right? And walk in there and they can even ask you only questions that you're prepared for and you can walk out feeling like, boy, you nailed it. But you haven't allowed you to enter the room. Your preparation was there, but you weren't there. So they don't feel you, right? So acknowledging, and my initial work,

^{Joe Fox (19:47.606)}
Yes, yep, absolutely.

^{Joe Fox (20:06.507)}
Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (20:14.245)}
with him was being able to identify what those blind spots are, because ultimately over-preparing is a reactive, it's a reaction that is attempting to solve for a problem that only exists in his mind. The interesting thing about the true leadership approach is that we end up doing less, not more. What we're doing less of is the reactivity that we become aware of.

^{Joe Fox (20:31.169)}
Mm-hmm.

_{Ty Hammond (20:41.315)}
And in so doing, recognize that the vast majority of problems that we're reacting to only exists in our mind. We talk about an action bias, right? Action biases are fantastic. But what we typically have, and if you're in any kind of place of reactivity, it's not an action bias, it's a reaction bias. And any time that you react instead of respond, you're not

^{Joe Fox (20:48.833)}
Mmm. Mmm.

^{Joe Fox (21:04.427)}
Yes, yep.

_{Ty Hammond (21:10.993)}
responding appropriately, you're always going to get the opposite impact of what you intend and then end up throwing your hands up and being like, what the heck happened? Because you're unaware of the particular conditions, right? There's the external data, but the way that you read and interpret that is dependent on your own internal data. And if you don't take account of that, that's a really big part of the question. What's the instrument we're actually perceiving?

^{Joe Fox (21:20.501)}
Yes, yeah.

^{Joe Fox (21:26.923)}
Mm-hmm.

_{Ty Hammond (21:37.722)}
Anyways, short, that's just sort of at the beginning of the journey with him. He got hired by beginning to prepare less, ended up feeling himself present in those. And then of course, took that into his leadership journey where we continued to work with him to identify all of the stumbling blocks that ends up being obstacles when we can identify, this is an adaptive challenge. And now I've actually got a process. I'm be like, there's my blind spot, working on becoming aware of that.

^{Joe Fox (21:37.739)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (21:47.872)}
Hmm.

_{Ty Hammond (22:05.937)}
because we decondition the reactivity over time. So ultimately it ends up not being there at all. So we don't have to manage our emotions anymore. Let's say if reactive, this is another like anger is the react, right? We talk about emotional intelligence that managing your anger is like the highest form of emotional intelligence. Bogus, highest form of emotional intelligence. I don't like the word intelligence there.

^{Joe Fox (22:11.691)}
Yes.

_{Ty Hammond (22:34.533)}
But the highest form of emotional intelligence is to be able to feel your feelings fully, experience it fully without reacting to it. Not mind, that's control. And any time that you're controlling part of yourself, you're cutting part of your own life force and vitality off. And guess what's not in the room? That life force and vitality. You're not.

Joe Fox (22:42.688)
Hmm.

Yep.

^{Joe Fox (22:55.358)}
yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. I was just very much agreeing with you. I think that's such a powerful sentiment. I think, you know, mastery of self really is so important. And I think, you know, what you do is really, really help people with that. And that sounds incredible. Please finish. Sorry, I didn't mean, I, yeah.

_{Ty Hammond (23:17.393)}
Can I just very quickly just be... No, no, no, no, no, you didn't come in at all. That was completely done. But I really make a distinction here between, and this is again, a commitment to mastery versus a commitment to mystery. A commitment to mastery is a commitment to answers and solutions that will always bring an end to mystery. So we'll...

^{Joe Fox (23:41.441)}
Hmm.

_{Ty Hammond (23:42.329)}
And if we seek mastery, we will get to certainty which will end up closing us off and ending our development. However, if, right, so a commitment to mastery brings the end to mystery, but a commitment to mystery, in other words, to being in the unknown, which is living in the present moment.

^{Joe Fox (23:51.102)}
Yes, yeah, that makes sense.

_{Ty Hammond (24:09.132)}
naturally results in mastery because we never close ourselves off to new information, right? It's practice of living in the question and not for the answer.

^{Joe Fox (24:22.432)}
I love that. I love that.

That's so powerful. I feel like every time we speak, I feel like, I almost feel like you're this wise Buddha that's just teaching me and pouring me full of all of these amazing things to think about and ponder on and to feel, right? Like I think that's one of the things is there's a lot of feeling attached to this process, which I think is really cool. mean, obviously when we had our podcast, there was quite a few emotional things that came up for me and things that I was able to talk about.

You know, publicly that I haven't, you know, in the past and what I did want to share with you on the podcast, because I really did want to see your reaction to this. But I remember we said, you know, at the end of recording it, you know, you said that it was brave that I shared and all of those sorts of things. I do have some really good news and I'm going to keep the person anonymous, but literally on this past Monday morning. So it was, it would have been Australia day in Australia and someone on LinkedIn.

I spoke earlier about mentoring people as someone that I met many, moons ago when I had my agency in Australia. we're talking like 10 plus years ago kind of thing. Younger person actually reached out to me via LinkedIn on a Monday morning. I feel like it was divine intervention because it would have been Sunday incredibly late there or however you want to put that in terms of the time zone change. And I typically wouldn't be on LinkedIn at this time.

Usually I try and separate LinkedIn just in terms of talking about that time management you mentioned earlier. And I saw that someone had sent a message and the message said, Hey, are you around? I'm struggling. And I haven't spoken to this person in years, aside from the fact that they actually reached out and thanked me for being brave and sharing my story on your podcast. So I wanted to share with you that I really feel like

^{Joe Fox (26:22.013)}
This person was in a level of crisis and needed someone simply to talk to, to essentially talk them off the ledge. And I was able to do that in my best capacity possible. But I just wanted to share with you how incredibly powerful it was that we said, you know, hopefully the right people see this and we can attest that someone has. So I just wanted to share that with you. That was, it's amazing, right? Like this is the way that things work. As I said, divine intervention.

So I wanted to share that with you.

_{Ty Hammond (26:53.596)}
Well, thank you so, so much. And I wanted to take the opportunity here to express to you as well that.

our conversation in that podcast was incredibly inspiring for me. And it really actually, it was really important because it shifted, you know, I was fairly new at the podcasting game and you were the first guest that had, would say willingly gone to that level of depth. I was not only inspired, I was actually moved to the point where it shifted my understanding of what's possible on this.

on this podcast, in the conversations as well. And it truly is a testament for anybody who hasn't listened to it, please go do find that the True Leadership podcast, the conversation between Joe and I was absolutely incredible. We became friends in that conversation, I believe it's that.

^{Joe Fox (27:45.768)}
Yes. Yeah, very close. He left short period of time.

_{Ty Hammond (27:50.451)}
So pretty special there and to sort of bring it around to this, is this like, this is what's possible when we're here for the conversation, is there is an energetic thing that's happening. I can invite you with my words and say, hey Joe, please feel safe and go anywhere that you wanna go.

^{Joe Fox (28:15.528)}
Mm, mm.

_{Ty Hammond (28:16.55)}
But that means nothing if my energy in my being, my actual beingness is not communicating that too. That's the difference between performance and essence, actually being.

^{Joe Fox (28:34.29)}
love that. And yeah, and I just want to thank you again for, for, you know, allowing that essence to be there and allowing me to open up and everything like that. Like I said, I had zero intentions of necessarily, you know, taking things down that direction. And, you know, it was something to be honest, that I've kind of almost kept relatively private to a small circle, but something I'm very comfortable talking about now. And I just think it's a testament to what you do.

and the essence that you possess to be able to make someone such as myself feel so comfortable in being myself and opening up like that. And the flow on effect is that, you know, that conversation has had its, well, one, could be many that we don't know of, but it definitely had its one effect with one person who really needed it at a time of crisis and felt comfortable reaching out. So I really wanted to share that with you as a, as a really good, you know,

feedback and it's an extension and a thank you for that.

_{Ty Hammond (29:37.33)}
Well, thank you and I appreciate that and brother must give credit where credit is due your choice to share. And let me just say that is the gift of presence is that we have the choice, right? So I may have, maybe there's a space in there in which like, felt safe to do it, but that was your choice. And that is the gift of presence is that we get to choose, right? So.

My hats off to you, to whatever extent that our conversation was a catalyst for that. I feel extremely honored. And thank you so much for sharing this story. got the goosebumps all over my arms and the tears welling up in my eyes to just know that this is how the impact spreads so effortlessly like this.

^{Joe Fox (30:07.005)}
I love that.

^{Joe Fox (30:32.517)}
Absolutely, absolutely. As I said earlier, divine intervention and certainly meant to be and look, Ty, you know, the sentiment is obviously very mutual between, you know, you and I am very deeply appreciative of you, your essence, you know, what you do, making me feel incredibly comfortable being myself 100 % when I'm in your presence. So I really appreciate that a lot. And to that point, I think

There's a lot of people, you know, in fact, I know there's a lot of people today who can benefit from what you do, who can benefit from your content, people that should connect with you, people that, you know, if you as as Ty mentioned earlier, if you haven't checked out Ty's podcast, I'll make sure that that's linked in the show notes. But Ty, I really want to open up this space, you know, essentially for you to be able to tell the audience how they can best connect with you and how

they can, you know, essentially dive into a lot of what we've touched on very surface level today. But if this, this obviously will appeal to a lot of the audience in their leadership journeys. And I want to make sure, you know, the whole reason I really wanted to have you on the podcast today was to be able to share this and share this with a wider audience. So what, where's the best place that people can connect with you, And, or sorry, and just one last thing.

is one last piece of advice that you'd kind of give to the audience that might not necessarily be ready to reach out to you on their leadership journey. One last thing to consider.

_{Ty Hammond (32:06.973)}
Fantastic, yeah. Well, thank you so much again for the opportunity to be here. Just, we knew before we got into it, the conversation was gonna be easy and deep. I'm not surprised, but always in awe there. So thank you again. Best way to get in touch with me is via LinkedIn. And then I just wanna make a little bit of a plug here in developing the true leadership approach over the past 10 years if it's something that you're interested in.

Now scaling a program called the True Leadership Intensive. That story that I told at the beginning about being so frustrated about these trainings that never actually move the needle. It's because of this missing piece around adaptive challenges and filling that what I call the capacity gap, the capacity to actually do the things that you learn. Finding amazing results out of this program, actively building a team out now to bring this to organizations as an addendum to their current

learning and development programs. So if you're, it's yourself out there, we all have tactical and adaptive challenges, but maybe you're thinking about folks on your team, right? That are stuck and no matter how much feedback they get, just can't sort of seem to, you know, move beyond that particular level of growth. You may be interested in the true leadership approach and the true leadership intensive. To that extent, visiting my website, onemountainleadership.com is gonna get you access to everything that you need there.

you know, invite anybody, VPC level, folks that are interested potentially on guesting on the podcast. That's where we elevate the voices of true leaders beyond performance, really getting to the essence of what true leadership means to other folks. And of course, a variety of other, resources and things there if you become interested. So, that's the connection piece in terms of the final words. I was thinking of this.

I think about this anytime that I end up coming on and talking like this, whether it's with, you know, through the body of work that I do or on a podcast or whatever is that what I say is what I say. What really, really matters in each and every single case, every single time that you hear anybody speak or get anything from the outside world is to run it through your own system of knowing.

_{Ty Hammond (34:32.414)}
To what extent does what I have said or anybody else has said resonates for you? And listen there. Listen and honor what you hear there. In other words, always trust and follow your own inner knowing. You cannot follow someone else's playbook to who you truly are. We reveal that by living in the mystery and discovering it on our own.

^{Joe Fox (35:01.539)}
Love that. What a way to end things. Ty, that was amazing. As always, like I said earlier, we'll definitely do a part two of this. I know the audience would have got an incredible amount of value from this conversation. I also very much encourage them to check out your podcast. think there's so many cool episodes there and so many things. And obviously I'll link our episode there so that people can connect with you.

I'll make sure your website's connected and I'll make sure your LinkedIn is in the show notes, but audience, please, you know, I highly recommend that you take Ty up on his offer to get involved with this. I cannot recommend it enough. I speak to it personally. Obviously you've heard some of the amazing things that have happened just from the very short interactions that Ty have had, Ty and I have had already. I consider him, you know, like a brother or a friend already.

And I don't say that lightly. very much encourage you to check all of that out. Ty, thank you, brother. Thank you so much for coming on. Really, really appreciate it. Very glad I was able to share that positive news about the positive impact that our conversation had. And thank you again for making that a safe space for me to be able to, you know, reveal my true essence and talk about some things that.

I may not have necessarily felt comfortable talking about before, but I really appreciate it and thank you again for coming on.

_{Ty Hammond (36:28.126)}
Well, Joe, thank you so much for having me as your guest and honoring me with your friendship, brother. I look forward to the next combo.

^{Joe Fox (36:37.324)}
Absolutely. Audience, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of Retain Grow Thrive, the Growave podcast. Once again, I cannot stress this enough. Please check out the links in the show notes on this one. This is a very powerful one. think everyone can be developing themselves. This certainly wasn't a technical episode like some of the episodes we've had on or one that can necessarily focus on building your business.

but it's certainly one that can help you improve yourself. And I think, at the end of the day, we may be tied to a company for a certain period of time, or we may be tied to a business for a certain period of time. but we have to live with ourselves every single day. be sure to stay true to yourself and be sure to check out some of those links that Ty mentioned, reach out to him if this resonated with you and, I'll be sure to see you again on the next episode of Retain Grow Thrive. Thank you so much for tuning in.