Nikki Tooman: Co-Founder at Sticky Digital

^{Joe Fox (00:01.349)}
I have run Joe Fox here for another episode of retained grow thrive. I'm the president at grow wave today. We have one of our partners and someone that I'm lucky enough to call a friend. And I'm actually friends with Nikki and her husband, Jacob. So this is a really one that's personal and close to my heart. Nikki is an amazing operator. Sticky digital was founded, I believe back in 2019. They have an amazing team. do incredible work.

very well known for retention in the Shopify ecosystem. So thank you so much for coming on, Nikki. I'm glad I could get you in the first season.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (00:39.222)}
Yeah, I'm so excited. Thanks for having me, Jo.

^{Joe Fox (00:42.029)}
Of course, of course. So I've given a little bit of a background, you know, kind of like really very minimal, but I'd love it if you could kind of go into your background, Nikki, and then how you ended up, you know, becoming CEO and co-founder of Sticky Digital and sort of the main problems that you guys are consistently, you know, solving for your merchants. You guys have an incredible

staff, as I mentioned earlier, and then some incredible brands. So I'm looking forward to digging into that.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (01:12.302)}
Yeah, absolutely. So sticky was started a couple of years ago, like five years ago now. Um, Marylin, myself, my other co founder, we started sticky, we joke around now because we're like, oh, emails was so easy. We're gonna do email, like that was the running joke with us that the reason like why we started sticky, like the most complex thing like you could ever be doing. And so her and I like joke around now, like email is not easy. like, take so much effort and it changes so quickly that

^{Joe Fox (01:36.706)}
No.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (01:42.06)}
you know, like we are still learning every day because the landscape is shifting. But we actually met like 10 years ago at the time it was the largest Shopify agency in North America. So there was probably like 10 Shopify agencies back then, which is so funny to think now because there's hundreds if not thousands. And we were at one of the core 10. And that's sort of like where we met she was employee nine, I was employee 10.

^{Joe Fox (01:59.618)}
Wow. Yes.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (02:10.938)}
and we sort of like bonded over, you know, being at this like small startup in this thing that was called Shopify that like nobody really knew at the time because it was very much still a heavy Magento landscape. and Mariel was sort of like running our CRO and like deliverability team or deliver team deliverability. And I was like on the sales partnership side. So I was working with all of our tech vendors and

figuring out how these texts could integrate into Shopify and how you could sort of scale a Shopify store with some of these different technologies. And so we were there for two to three years and then went brand side to build a couple of brands. And while we were at that Shopify agency and on the brand side, we were realizing that nobody was really doing email and nobody was focused on it.

We had a couple of merchants when we were at that agency that were basically like, Hey, who is doing email? Like who is an email, not even agency, but a team that has an email team that you can like refer us to so that we could like work with. didn't have a single one. at that time we had, I was managing over like 200 tech partnerships and agency partnerships, and we didn't have a single agency that did email marketing. When we were brand side and we were like responsible for.

^{Joe Fox (03:17.367)}
Wow.

^{Joe Fox (03:27.703)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (03:32.556)}
you know, designing the Shopify stores and spinning up the products and like we were doing everything, we were doing the marketing, we were building the sites, we were creating the products and getting them shipped from China, which is another story that we will I'm sure talk about with tariffs and stuff. So I'm very familiar with that as well. But we were like doing all of it. And so we were looking for sort of like agencies to like help scale these Shopify brands. And again, we couldn't find a single agency that was like focused on this.

^{Joe Fox (03:45.247)}
Yeah

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (04:00.526)}
And so Mariel and I decided to like leave the brand side and start this because we had gotten a really great exposure on brand side running it for four different brands. And so we like wanted to create something that could help brands sort of like scale retention because this was really at a time five years ago when paid media was like really helping scale brands but was not going to be like the forever solution. And so

^{Joe Fox (04:29.302)}
Yes.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (04:29.87)}
knew that like you had to lean into retention to like capture these people and keep remarketing to them. And it was really before anybody was doing it because everybody was relying so heavily on sort of like, you know, if you put them on your site, they'll keep coming back through paid media. And that's just obviously not what happened. And then COVID hit right as we started sticky at the beginning, like basically end 2019 beginning of 2020. And that's really when we saw that landscape shift from like

paid media to like needing to retain these people because like this is how you were going to grow your company.

^{Joe Fox (05:05.11)}
Yeah, that's amazing, Nikki. I think, I mean, talk about timing and identifying an opportunity. And I think, you know, you and I have spoken offline about this. think, you know, Mariel is really that into your yang in the business relationship. So it's like a perfect partnership and she's fantastic. She's a sweetheart too. that's awesome. And so in regards to that, right? Like there's a couple of really key kind of points you touched on.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (05:17.624)}
Yes. Yes. Yes.

^{Joe Fox (05:32.866)}
We will, you know, kind of dive into what's happening currently in the market, you know, shortly, but I think you really hit on some good points. And this is for, you know, there's, we've got a wide audience for this. We've got other agency partners. have tech partners, but above all, we have, you know, our grow wave merchants. I think a couple of those points that you touched on are really important, right? Like this reliance, I know that the landscape has shift particularly since COVID.

But there is still seems to be this odd in my mind reliance on putting everything on top of funnel and really not diving into your attention a lot. I think from talking to the CS team, I think sometimes it's, it's a lack of no all, but also like a bit of a fear of like, well, if we, if we stop investing here at the top of the funnel, what's going to happen to the rest of the funnel? And are we even be

Are we even able to focus on retention? So I'd love to just hear a little bit more, you know, don't give away the secret sauce of sticky too much, but like, you know, some of the, some of the thought processes and strategy that go into that retention piece. I'd love for you to tell the audience a little bit more about that.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (06:48.47)}
Yeah, I think this is like really important because to your point, like you should never stop, right, acquiring the customer, should never stop pumping into the top of funnel. But I think where a lot of brands miss the mark and a lot of maybe like relationships between agencies miss the mark is like, those paid agencies are relying so heavily on retention agencies or other agencies or even brands.

to retain a customer once they push them to the site, right? Like the acquisition agency's job is to like get the correct person to the site. But if all of those tools on site are not functioning in a proper way to capture that data and to capture that customer, like it's wasted money. So what we say is our job at Sticky is really to help all of the money that you're spending in acquisition to like make those people come back and repeat purchase. And it really does start as simply as like your pop-up.

^{Joe Fox (07:17.269)}
Yes.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (07:43.214)}
What are you doing on your pop-up? Like your pop-up is yes, an acquisition tool, but it's an acquisition tool on the retention side. And like that data that you're capturing on that pop-up tool is gonna feed your flywheel of retention. So where we see brands do this incorrectly is like brands that are doing pop-ups and doing them the same way across every device, desktop versus mobile. Like what is that like?

^{Joe Fox (07:43.304)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (08:06.718)}
Yes.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (08:08.014)}
Do you realize that those shoppers shop very differently and that those pop ups should perform very differently? You have some brands that have Email and SMS capture on step one. Have you tested whether it should be on step one step two step three? Like what does that look like a lot of testing has to go into it. There's not a one size fits all for everybody. Every brand is very different because every customer performs very differently.

Dependent on like what you're selling or what you're trying to push on your site and I think the other piece of this too is like you set it up and If you find what wins it's not gonna win forever. So like this should be something that you should be testing every quarter every six months you should be constantly re-evaluating because like you also should have the opportunity to capture first party data on that pop-up so if you're selling I don't know skincare, right and somebody's

your site for skincare? Do you know what they're actually looking for? If you are like if you have a foundation or sorry, like a moisturizer and a serum? Do you know what somebody is looking for? Do you know if they have dry skin or oily skin? Like it's the perfect place to ask the first question to then be able to like curate the experience in email and on site thereafter. And if you're not doing that, like you're missing out. And I think that's where it's so important is like

start from step one, right? Step one is that acquisition on your site with your pop-up and what does that look like?

^{Joe Fox (09:42.655)}
Absolutely. Yeah. No, there's some very, very good pointers there. And I think, you know, you, you've touched on it multiple times. It's like that personalization, not only, not only from the way that a brand should be approaching their customer, but also the way that Sticky does personalization for their merchants. There's no two that are the same. And I really love that approach. Um, you know, I think you and I have mentioned this and I know everyone in our industry kind of feels the same. It's like that.

You can't have a cookie cutter approach to anything that we do. Everything has to be personalized, no matter if it feels like two brands are the same or they're in a similar vertical. So I really love that. so Nikki, tell me a little bit about what you and the team and sticky are kind of working on at the moment. Like what's kind of some of the core things that are happening at the moment, obviously, you know, we'll dive into the tariffs and the current market at the moment. That's creating a bit of uncertainty.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (10:12.408)}
No.

^{Joe Fox (10:39.357)}
And I'll caveat that with, as I always say on this podcast, if you are not working with experts, now is the time to be working with experts such as Sticky. It's so important, but what is it that you and the team are kind of focused on at the moment in present day?

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (10:56.758)}
Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that we love to dig in on, and I don't really know a ton of agencies that can say this is like we love digging into sort of like deliverability and really looking at in terms of email, like what is actually performing for you? Like, where are your blockers? Are your emails being delivered across every email provider? Is there something there that's like stopping it from performing? We love getting nerdy with like the data of deliverability.

We, and it is something that like is always ever like changing. And if you're changing from an ESP to an ESP, like that also becomes very convoluted because you have to like rewarm let's do all that. So like that's something we're very focused on. work with a couple of partners, like Arita that help with sort of like that deliverability piece, which we absolutely love. And really like helping brands invest in this deliverability piece because that is what we're seeing like move the needle for brands today is like really that.

deliverability. We also really love looking at and creating bespoke loyalty programs for brands. I think another piece of this is a lot of brands have loyalty programs because they think that it's what they should be doing because competitors have loyalty programs and to be competitive they need to have one. But where they fall short is that they are not creating something bespoke

for their customers and they're not creating something that's like special to them. They're creating basically the same thing that their competitors have and they're offering the same thing and it's not exciting as a customer. So we really love to create like bespoke loyalty programs for brands and really figuring out how all of your technology pieces can sort of like tie in to create like this retention flywheel within your email and SMS channel. The other thing that like

as part of that, that we don't see brands doing very well is they invest in all of these different technologies, but they don't have a central place where they all talk to each other. And I think like all of these email platforms today, especially when it comes to Shopify email programs or platforms, they all have the ability to like integrate these tech stacks in a very cool way to create a flywheel. And where brands again, fall short is they will implement a grow wave.

^{Joe Fox (12:57.479)}
Yes.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (13:17.082)}
and they'll implement it and they won't tie it into like their central systems, right? And they won't tie it into like a Clavio or they tie it in, like maybe they don't have it like running the way that it should be running. It's the same thing with like some of these other tools that are out there as well. There's a really great way to tie everything in, make everything talk to each other so that like there's a streamlined communication and retention is like flying in a circular motion so that once you invest in like the upfront setup, like

It's easy there, there on out. Like everything is sort of like working together.

^{Joe Fox (13:50.909)}
Yeah, absolutely. I think that is very undervalued. I can say this now because we're recording now, but by the time this comes out, it'll actually be released. But we've been working very closely with the team over at Klaviyo. So we're actually going to be the first to actually have all of that integration data within the customer hub. I've worked very hard for that. I love Dan Caldwell and sort of all of the team over at Klaviyo.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (14:11.138)}
bit. Yes.

^{Joe Fox (14:19.835)}
They are our biggest integration partner. And that's something that we get feedback on directly from customer from our agency partners. So I'm happy to announce that. but the other thing I think you touched on really good point there, Nikki is the loyalty programs. I feel like everyone does these carbon copy loyalty programs. You look at three brands that have a very, are in a similar vertical, similar ICP.

And they're all copying each other. And what I've really enjoyed lately is seeing some of the out of the box experiences that the merchants are kind of willing to go down the path of. a good example, one that we're launching, it'll probably be launched by the time this comes out. Very high end jewelry sort of manufacturer and designer based out of New York. They do very, very exclusive collections. Most of their customer base is repeat business.

Or it's, for example, their ICP friend is going to be the exact same ICP. And so what they've done for this, you know, kind of this loyalty program that we're to be rolling out is they're offering, this really cool experience to go behind the scenes. And it's almost like they do a high T and get to watch the collection be built. And so they get to see all of the designs and they go through with the master jeweler. And then they get to have this kind of.

high T and it's about bringing the other friend along to this experience. And then it's creating this double sense of loyalty where the, you know, loyal customer gets rewarded for that. And they get to bring another ICP merchant into the top of the funnel. So kind of similar to what you were chatting around that flywheel. I think brands that are doing that particularly in this time and, and this, you know, rocky kind of, you know, weird political

stuff that we're going through at the moment, for lack of a better term. Those brands that are taking those risks, doing things a little bit out of the box, I think like a lot of things we've seen in the past where brands are prepared to be a bit different and stand out, they will prosper from it. So very exciting about that. Sorry, I went on a tangent there.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (16:34.944)}
No, I think that's so true though, because I think a lot of brands probably in my experience are nervous or think like, we don't have the budget to do this like big thing. And it's like, you would be surprised at what you already have, like as a brand to be able to like utilize that piece as sort of like part of your loyalty program. And you're already doing some of these things.

you're already creating the jewelry, right? You're already doing some of these things. So like just add an extra step of like letting people behind the scenes to see that, letting them bring a friend. Like you're already doing these things. So then how can you sort of like add a layer to it to make it feel special? And to your point, like there are so many brands that are doing carbon copies because everybody else has one. And it's like, take a step back and think about what's gonna set you apart and make you special. And it doesn't matter if you don't have

Three tiers of points because you don't have that many things to offer like don't create something that's like not Doesn't feel genuine and authentic to the brand just because somebody else has it like create something that's authentic to your customer base

^{Joe Fox (17:42.235)}
Absolutely. love that. And I think, you know, once again, to my point earlier, it's like going to the experts such as Sticky Digital, who are absolute experts in loyalty and retention and even, you know, having those consultation conversations, getting involved in an engagement. You're going to have that whole team who've implemented these sort of out of the box ideas as opposed to trying to do it yourself, wearing 50 million hats, like a lot of merchants unfortunately are.

at the moment and, and Ecom managers as well. So going back a little bit, I really want to touch on the current, you know, Ecom landscape because we've spoken about this. Obviously there is unfortunately a lot of fear and I would say not just fear, but it's this uncertainty. think people can deal with things when there's a bit of clarity and they're aware of, you know, what the next steps will be. But at the moment.

feels like we don't even know. mean, one minute we have tariffs, one minute we don't. It's this, you know, kind of analysis paralysis that merchants are getting stuck in. Nikki, what are you kind of hearing from your merchants? What are you seeing in the market at the moment? And what would be your piece of advice to these merchants during these times?

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (19:02.38)}
Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting because when this whole thing first started, like almost 90 days ago, when you know, these tariffs started shifting, and I think even before that, we started feeling it. But it's interesting, because we've been at so many conferences where I've been asking merchants like our does this thing impact your business? it make you nervous? Like, what like just genuinely trying to get the sense of it? It seems like those merchants that have really great relationships with their suppliers are not as concerned and

^{Joe Fox (19:30.308)}
Okay.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (19:30.99)}
Aren't as nervous about it because they have sort of like found I don't want to say workarounds, but they've found ways that they can still Create product and not have to increase pricing that much because of their established relationships with the suppliers I also think that like we work with a lot of skincare beauty brands A lot of that isn't manufactured out of some of these places that are getting hit with like the most extreme tariffs So I will also say that I think it also is very dependent on

what your product line is and what that looks like. But I think now more than ever, brands should really focus on retaining and bringing back the most loyal customers and really digging into that loyalty piece. And even if it's not through a genuine loyalty program, but using

the loyalty play to bring people back that already know your product, that know the quality, that know how good it is, get them to come back and purchase again and like really shift on, you know, instead of acquiring those net new customers, like shift and pivot more and focus on those people that have tried your product because there's obviously value there. And I think like people that know how good products are, if you do have to increase pricing, I think that those people that know how good your product is, they're still going to pay for an increased price because

they know it over a competitor, right? Like it's better suited for them than having to try something new that maybe doesn't work very well.

^{Joe Fox (20:56.58)}
Yeah, absolutely. think, you know, those are all some very, very valid points. And I think, you know, the, the interesting thing is like the, in this scenario in particular, the merchants are in a position. The customers are usually in a position because they're going to be impacted in their day to day lives. But I think it's kind of this sticking together mentality that gets us through any of these hard times.

To me, it kind of feels similar, similar-ish to the uncertainty at the start of COVID. And then everyone was kind of like holding onto everything, not investing, slowing things down. But then, you know, as we saw it was this, this huge boom afterwards. So I'm hoping that that's the case. But I think, you know, we, we all, you know, in this economic situation, I think just want some clarity as to, and certainty as to what's going on. feel.

It's strange that it feels like that's too much to ask at the moment.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (21:57.39)}
crazy that like you kind of feel like you're being like it's like you feel like you have whiplash like literally every like day it's something new. And like every morning when I wake up, I'm like, here we go. Like what is what is it gonna be today? Like what's the tariff news today? Like it's literally just we're living in a time where everything is so unpredictable that it is regardless of scenario and how comfortable you feel brand agency owner technology like it doesn't matter. No matter how comfortable you feel you can't

^{Joe Fox (22:16.729)}
Mm-mm.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (22:26.634)}
help but acknowledge the fact that like everything is so unpredictable that like your how your way may not be how you feel tomorrow and I think like that is the scariest piece of it like we literally don't know we don't know and it's it's so crazy to feel that way

^{Joe Fox (22:31.555)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (22:39.202)}
Yes.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, you know, that's why it's important to have the right guidance around you to kind of like navigate this uncertainty because regardless of it, you feel less lonely when you've got more people in your corner helping you and leading you through this and people who, know, experts who have been through other similar situations like COVID, like inflation, all of those sorts of things. So

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (23:08.706)}
Yep. Agreed.

^{Joe Fox (23:10.039)}
I think that's super important. cool. And also like one other thing I kind of wanted to, you know, kind of bring up is I, I would love to get your thoughts on just this unified commerce piece that's, that's happening at the moment. think obviously it's something that Shopify really focused on. mean, I feel like almost every second piece of content that, Harley's putting out at the moment at Shopify is

really focused on, on unified commerce. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how that plays in with, with everything that you do at Sticky and what the team do.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (23:48.078)}
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting, right? Because I think the two things that everybody's talking about is unified commerce and AI. so those are the two things that we're talking about, like every day. And I think in terms of like retention and how we see it in like this unified commerce aspect of it, really it's interesting because there's so many retention tools that are out there. And I think like before brands were

^{Joe Fox (23:54.944)}
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (24:00.791)}
Mm-hmm.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (24:18.88)}
not necessarily like unifying the experience in terms of like bringing it all in tech stack consolidation beforehand, they were like trying to do what was best for the brand. And I think best for the brands in terms of like

functionality and things like that. And I think now like it's less of that and more about bringing everything under like one central system to sort of like help it grow and expand. So if you have like reviews and you have loyalty, like you're looking at consolidating that into like one piece rather than going across two different platforms. And I think, you know, for a number of reasons, it's very important. And I think on the retention side of things, it's always been very important because your data, right? Like your central

^{Joe Fox (24:32.685)}
Mm-hmm.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (25:00.817)}
data, what that looks like. It's hard to record out of multiple tools. It's hard to see how your

how your store is actually performing when your email is here and your SMS is there. Like it's a very hard and not to mention those brands that also have like push notifications and things like that. Like it is very difficult when you're reporting out of multiple systems. And I think it's so important today with everything going on, but also with just like, know, really trying to make a push and retention, like consolidating and making it like a unified experience.

^{Joe Fox (25:20.183)}
you

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (25:34.988)}
Yeah, because it's like it today is very difficult with what we're being handed to us in terms of you know, tariffs and unpredictability and else. And so if you can sort of like consolidate and do, I guess, even like the bare minimum by just consolidating and bringing everything under one roof so that it's just easier for you to report on and easier for you to have clarity into what's happening. Like that is 100 % like what we would recommend.

^{Joe Fox (26:04.535)}
Amazing. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. think, it's so important just for the merchant to have that clarity and then to be working with partners such as yourself. You're singing from the same, same song sheet. It went, when you've got everything unified. think what I use, I mean, way back in my agency days in Australia, I found that, you know, if you're all pulling from different data sources, there's no source of truth. And I think.

You businesses need to be making so many of their decisions based upon data. So actually having all of that data in one place and talking to each other is, so critical. So critical. So Nikki, we, we always bump into each other in conferences all over the globe, all of us in partnerships. We just travel so much, right. And in our e-commerce, e-commerce ecosystem. So.

I always ask guests this question. You can't, you cannot say a person, but you can say a thing. So what is one thing that you cannot live without? Whether you're, if you're traveling, if you're, you know, at home relaxing, whatever it may be. I know you don't get enough relax time, but you know what I mean? If what's something that you cannot live with that can be a device, it can be a book, it can be an object of some description.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (27:29.772)}
Well, you've just let me off the hook for not having to say my husband. So thank you for that. Shout out to Jake. The one thing I can't live without, think like my, team knows me very well. And like they joke around about this, like diet Coke or diet Dr. Pepper, to be honest with you, like I am not that person that's like, I, I drink socially here and there, but like, if you give me a good like,

^{Joe Fox (27:33.162)}
I'll say him. For me.

^{Joe Fox (27:50.515)}
Yeah.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (27:59.758)}
diet coke, like I am the happiest person I will ever be in my entire life. I go to conferences and rate conferences based on how available my diet coke is to me. like, you know what I mean? If you're like, honestly, Joe, was very upset that at shop talk, all of those hotels were Pepsi hotels. Don't tell me you can't the difference between Pepsi and Coke because like, I think that's the most crazy thing. But

^{Joe Fox (28:19.658)}
Yes.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (28:25.324)}
Diet Coke is like my lifeline. Like I will choose that over alcohol. I will choose it over coffee. Like I'll choose it over water. Diet Coke is like my go-to.

^{Joe Fox (28:37.13)}
your go-to thing. I love that. My wife is the same. she, it must be a California thing. I'm not sure, but it has to be, but yeah, my wife is very much the same. It's it's diet coke, not a fan of Pepsi. She loves diet Dr. Pepper though. That's the other substitute. Yeah.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (28:43.351)}
I have to be.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (28:51.47)}
Name I actually prefer diet Dr. Pepper over diet coke But you can't really get diet Dr. Pepper everywhere so I kind of like fine I will be okay with diet coke but yeah I'm like I'm a psycho and I ever since I had a my daughter my second kid like I can't even drink diet soda out of a can So like I'm a psycho and I will go to a fast food restaurant to just get a soda. I don't get anything else

^{Joe Fox (28:59.016)}
Okay, okay.

Mm.

^{Joe Fox (29:20.181)}
Fountain soda? Okay, okay, okay. Yeah.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (29:21.518)}
Fountain soda. Like, I'm taking it to a whole new level. Like, I am psychotic person and if I have to do it out of a can, I will. But it just tastes tinny to me. So like, I need a fountain soda. Carbonated tea.

^{Joe Fox (29:36.602)}
I that. I love that. I must say I have convert over the past six months of being doing the no drinking thing. And I must say like there is something for me with the diet, with the diet soda, it's got to be like in a glass with ice, with the lemon, with the lemon, the lemon is like the, the cherry on top. Yeah, absolutely.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (29:53.518)}
Yep. Love me so much. Well, somebody recently was like, did you know that one of my girlfriends, she was like, did you know that like they say that every time you drink a diet soda and don't come at me, I know that they're like not the healthiest for you fine. But I could be doing way worse.

But she was basically like, did you know that every time you have a diet soda, they say that it takes like 15 minutes off your life? I literally sat there and like started calculating. I'm like, okay, well if I have like two a week, that's 30 minutes a week times like four weeks. That's only two hours. Like I literally started calculating how many years I was taking on my life. I was like, not that bad. It's fine. Other things will tell me before the diet soda does.

^{Joe Fox (30:31.485)}
Yeah, that it's, it's, it's livable. It's livable. No, we all, we all have to have our things. My, mine since the quitting drinking is definitely coffee. I think I've always been a bit of a coffee snob, but now I've like turned it up a whole nother level. And I'm like getting all finicky with which beans and you know, single, single origin and all of that sort of stuff.

^{Joe Fox (30:57.656)}
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm like doing a little bit of the pour over thing. do a little bit of like the, yeah, I'm getting into it. And it's funny because I always swore I'd never be like my dad, but my dad is like the ultimate coffee snob. And now we're texting each other about coffee. And I'm like, what's going on? This is the beginning of the end. think Nikki. Yeah.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (31:11.714)}
Yeah.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (31:22.506)}
I am my father. I am turning into my father.

^{Joe Fox (31:26.257)}
Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much. You and I could chat forever like we always do, but thank you so much, Nikki. Really appreciate it. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on. For the audience though, where is the best place they can reach you? Where can they follow updates about Sticky? I'll make sure all of the links are put in the show notes, but where's the best place to connect with you?

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (31:51.51)}
Yeah, you can you can find me on LinkedIn Nikki Tuman t o o man, very unique last name So there's very few of us. That should be the easiest probably place to find me Yeah, we're the only two that will show up. if you can't get a hold of me, can go through my husband. That's fine. And then you can also send me an email Nikki at sticky digital.io Also, not hard to remember Nikki at sticky.

^{Joe Fox (32:01.812)}
You and Jacob pop up there up the top.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (32:17.334)}
And then we also have, if you're a brand and like you're just curious as to sort of like where you think your retention stacks up, you can also just email or reach out. We give free retention audits to everybody that like comes in. So you can also do that on the website, stickydigital.io. And we have like a free audit form there as well if you don't want to, you know, LinkedIn outreach or anything else, but that's where you can find me, LinkedIn, the website or Nikki, N-I-K-K-I at stickydigital.io.

^{Joe Fox (32:29.064)}
amazing.

^{Joe Fox (32:45.492)}
Amazing. I'll make sure all of that's pinned in the show notes. Nikki, thank you so much for coming on, mate. Really appreciate it. Always good to catch up. Please go give Jacob a big hug for me. I haven't seen him for a little while, so I'm missing the big fella. But yeah, really appreciate having you on. Grateful for our partnership and love working with you and you've got an amazing team and you've really built an incredible business. So thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (32:48.636)}
you.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (32:53.506)}
Thank you. Yes.

I will. I will. I will.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (33:06.755)}
same.

_{NIKKI TOOMAN (33:10.83)}
Thank you, Thank you. Thank you, Sue.

^{Joe Fox (33:16.221)}
Cool. Thank you. And everyone, thank you for tuning in to another episode of retain grow thrive. I implore you to connect with Nikki and the team over at Sticky. Please, if you're a brand, you will see the caliber of brands that Sticky Digital work with and the incredible work that they've done on their website. So I, you know, encourage you to reach out and connect for that audit. Thank you all so much for tuning in. And thank you and see you again soon.