Brenden Rawson: CEO and Founder at Andzen

^{Joe Fox (00:00.93)}
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of retain growth thrive today. I'm very, very excited to welcome my very, very good friend. And he's a friend of grow wave and in many multiple capacities, which we'll talk about very soon, but please welcome Brendan Rawson from and Zen to the retain grow thrive podcast. Brendan, thank you so much for joining, mate. How are you?

_{Brenden Rawson (00:24.31)}
Joe, thanks for having me. I'm very well. A little tired from all of my traveling, but you know, got to do what you got to do.

^{Joe Fox (00:32.76)}
Absolutely. I'm sort of keen to dig into that a little bit because I find that in partnerships and in tech and in agency land and everything, we all travel so much. I think it must be one of the jobs where we travel the most. But obviously with this, you know, huge renewed focus and wins that you're having in the US, I know it means that you're spending a lot of time here, which selfishly I really enjoy because we get to catch up a lot more.

_{Brenden Rawson (00:54.242)}
Yes.

_{Brenden Rawson (00:59.224)}
Me too.

^{Joe Fox (01:01.865)}
but yeah, I'm keen to kind of dig into a little bit about that, bit of bit around the stuff that you're doing with Rachel and everything like that. but first of all, tell me a little bit about where you are. know you're in Toronto at the moment. You're at additions. little bit of lagged, imagine.

_{Brenden Rawson (01:15.602)}
Yes.

Yeah, so I'm in Toronto for additions and it is like my midway point, I think on my month long tour. So just recently come back from Valencia, Spain for the European e-commerce agency summit with Rachel Jacobs, which is fantastic. Got the opportunity to present on stage all about customer journey and run some round tables on customer journey and spread the good word.

And generally like hang out with some of the European platforms as well as agencies. So that was really exciting.

^{Joe Fox (01:57.685)}
Yeah, I love that. And I think that's so cool. mean, we'll dive in about you and Rachel and stuffing on our new board and everything very shortly. But I mean, I think that's such an amazing, you know, because you have been doing this a very long time, you know, whilst we both may be in North America at the moment and growing and doing big things in this market.

_{Brenden Rawson (02:07.404)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (02:21.717)}
You and I both come from Brisbane, which is, you know, traditionally been a relatively kind of a small, a big country town in Australia. even though it is a very fast growing city, but, I mean, it's so cool to see you kind of, know, this is a compliment to you just on the world stage, really like sharing your advice and your guidance to these other agencies and to tech partners around, you know, everything that you guys are doing. I guess.

_{Brenden Rawson (02:24.216)}
Yes, we do.

^{Joe Fox (02:51.188)}
It's hard to have a moment of reflection when you're traveling so much, do you sit there and kind of have a bit of a pinch me moment and think about everything that you're achieving with Anzan and from your beginnings and where you're at now and winning all of these big brands in the US, et cetera.

_{Brenden Rawson (03:11.352)}
You mentioned about Brisbane and I think, you know, make jokes about this, but Brisbane goes hard. Like it's it's a, like the third largest city in Australia. I think we got a bit of a chip on our shoulder about that already. But there's some really good talent. And I think in order to grow, like proper scale, we've got to sort of get out of town and then, you know, get out of the country as well. And you've done it. And I feel like we're doing it as well.

Yeah, like I do have moments, you know, when we're sitting on the beach in Portugal thinking, wow, you know, this, I did not expect this when we started the agency in little old Brisbane, but yeah, I think we made big impact. We stuck to our guns, we stuck to our niche, grew our reputation, and frankly, the world noticed.

^{Joe Fox (04:03.828)}
Absolutely, yeah, no, and I think that's an incredible way to put it and you're very humble as always, but you know, you have achieved some incredible things leading ends and right. So like, if we have a look at the strength of what you've built with the team and the talent, the brands that you work with, the results you've achieved pushing into all these new regions and, you know, really hunkering down in these regions.

I'd love to just chat a little bit because I think one thing that you, Jason and the team have done incredibly well. and this is, this is the mastery of Klaviyo essentially, right? Like you guys are masters at it. I don't think there's anyone who would remotely dispute that. we love our partnership, you know, on a, on a selfish level at Grow Wave, we love our partnership with Klaviyo, but I just love to hear a bit about, because

I don't know if everyone knows this, but I feel that you were very instrumental in shaping Klaviyo's partner program and really providing a lot of product feedback. And I know you probably can't go into every single detail about that relationship, but think of a lot of people in the audience would love to know about that a little bit more.

_{Brenden Rawson (05:19.8)}
Yeah, yeah. I mean, very short history. We started out as our own platform in London called SignUp2. I brought that to Australia. We ended up selling it and I pivoted into an agency. But what that really means is like we were SaaS. We built the platform and we sold tech and services on top of that. So we had an advantage for a lot of other agencies. Like we knew how this operated. We understood deliverability and we understood professional services on top of that because I built it out.

so when we came across Klaviyo, like we saw the tech, we saw them actually investing in product and doubling down. and that made sense for us. as far as a partner, the partnership and the partner program. Yeah. Yeah. We, we were very fortunate to be, leading an APAC, bringing on a lot of brands and then, you know, migrating them to Klaviyo that we really got their attention. And I think because of our technical background and expertise.

they were really interested in what drives agencies from a partner program. What are you looking for? And I think one of the big things that, you know, that we made note of at that point was, well, do you want to just be affiliate and just want to pass on comms or do you want to have a deeper partner program that actually speaks to execution and expertise and training so that, you know, you don't just have like an affiliate program, but you actually have deep

partnerships with deep product knowledge who retain customers. And I think that's a big thing. Talking about retention marketing here, we want to bring our clients on the Klaviyo, but also grow Wave and the rest of our partner ecosystem and not just have one-time referrals, but actually bring them on, implement best of class, make sure that they're using full features, grow the merchant, grow their revenue and grow their spend and their adoption of our partner products.

And I think when you look at it from not just a way to make some side referral money, but like a way to like truly embed yourself into the ecosystem and think about what the customer's doing, the results speak for themselves, your reputation speaks for itself, and you can build on that.

^{Joe Fox (07:36.478)}
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I, you know, I think the, to the fellow agency, you know, partners who are, who are watching this, I think there's so much that can be learned from you, from Ains end, from that journey, from those relationships. And I think you've done it incredibly well. And I think, you know, going back kind of to, to, to Rachel, think, you know, what Rachel does and the ethos that everyone who's in that community is really actually.

_{Brenden Rawson (07:54.584)}
Thank you.

^{Joe Fox (08:04.489)}
You know, yes, it might be about helping your agency become more profitable, more scalable, more, um, you know, I don't want to take the words out of Rachel's mouth because she'll be on here soon, you know, it really is about at the end of the day, like delivering that value to the merchant and utilizing the ecosystem. And I really love how you've touched on that. Um, because I think you do it incredibly well, not just as an individual, but at end to end.

_{Brenden Rawson (08:30.826)}
Yeah, no, thank you. And frankly, the community that Rachel has built, it's not just tech partnerships, it's agency partnerships as well. And we're a niche customer journey marketing agency, and we partner really well with other dev agencies or performance agencies or CRO agencies. So as a part of that community, and more so in North America and Europe, we're finding new tech partners and developing relationships with them.

but also agencies, right. And helping spread the word of like, all right, you're a Shopify dev agency, you know, you can do marketing as well. And there are fantastic products like great grow away that you could like weave into your service and build out a retention model and retain a model on top of your builds.

^{Joe Fox (09:16.509)}
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think, you know, there's so many, we could talk about this forever because having, you know, been in on the agency side myself, I, I always feel like there's things to learn in that. I, you know, like I said, I have so much respect for you and what you've built. okay. So I want to dive into a couple of other things. You know, we, we spoke about, you know, what you're doing with Rachel a little bit, but I'd love to.

_{Brenden Rawson (09:24.596)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (09:44.179)}
dig into that side of things a little bit more, because this is where I feel that, you know, the audience of this podcast is merchants, it's other tech partners, it's agency partners. But I think one thing, Brendan, that people can pick up from this is that you're not shy to work with others to achieve a better goal, whether it be for merchants, whether it be for partners, whether it be for Anzam, whether it be for yourself.

_{Brenden Rawson (09:57.112)}
you

^{Joe Fox (10:12.55)}
So can you talk a little bit more about what that kind of looks like from a, you know, would I be correct in saying, you know, Rachel's kind of working with you as a mentor and someone who's giving guidance, is that correct?

_{Brenden Rawson (10:26.464)}
Yeah, I think so. And, you know, she has been in the scene for a long time and she's worked with a lot of agencies and just picked up a ton of information. you're completely invaluable and the community around her as well. But like a big reason why I wanted to dive in deeper, work more closely was her connection to the communities and connection to the different agencies and tech.

is such a big part of the message that she pushes and the community that she builds. And frankly, it's such a big part of how we grow our business as well. You know, we're a customer journey agency or a Klaviyo agency, but that Klaviyo no longer is just an email tool or an SMS tool. It's a CRM, it's a CDP, it's a data platform. And that only works with an ecosystem of...

other tech platforms that feed in information about loyalty, about reviews, about returns, about quizzes, about customer service. And we bring all of that in to create these like, you know, really personalized, incentivized, high revenue driving, high loyalty creating flows. But in order to do that, we need to implement all of these different apps and

You know, they have tremendous benefit to the merchant directly, but indirectly they have a ton of first party, zero party data that they bring in that we can create these more customized journeys. And, know, in 2025, it's not just about blasting out emails or SMS. It is about creating these very custom bespoke journeys because that's just what the consumer expects these days.

^{Joe Fox (12:11.176)}
Absolutely. mean, you know, I've had a, you know, you and I know this, but I'm like right into the sort of tactical stuff and all of that space. And it's interesting to, you know, I talked to Jason Young from Ballistic, who, know, you know, very well. I know, I know you both are massive advocates of Klaviyan. I was talking to him about this because it surprises me how many

_{Brenden Rawson (12:24.94)}
Yeah, good guy.

^{Joe Fox (12:36.507)}
brands, particularly, maybe it's like, notice it more because that's the space that I'm purchasing from the most frequently, but how many brands still, I don't think have this figured out. Like the, the getting blasted with emails, like even things like having placeholders in emails, emails that are completely out of date, reusing the content from last year. Like it's just, it's mind blowing to me, but I think that's.

_{Brenden Rawson (12:57.398)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (13:05.466)}
why there's such a big opportunity for organizations such as yourself.

_{Brenden Rawson (13:11.208)}
And I think like we spent a long time educating the market on, you know, how email could be more than just your newsletter or your sort of sale campaign that you could create, craft these journeys and you could bring customers back to your website and then you could get second, third and fourth purchases off of your original purchase. And I think we spent many years doing that, but I think we're at this inflection point now, or you probably have them a year ago or so where,

People get it now. CRM is a thing. Klavier is a thing. Email marketing is a thing. And people understand it. But we went through this wave. And COVID probably had a lot to do with it, you just turn it on and it make money. But times are a little bit different now. The global macroeconomics have changed. The tariffs have changed situations. Margins aren't what they used to be. So now, I think there's a real opportunity for

^{Joe Fox (13:42.566)}
Mmm.

_{Brenden Rawson (14:09.942)}
really good agencies. hopefully, we're considered one of those to come in and find where we can bring in new revenue, where we can improve margins, where we can clean things up for what was done in haste over COVID, and help merchants. At the end of the day, just helping merchants, doing a good job, and leveraging that reputation to continue to grow.

^{Joe Fox (14:33.868)}
Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, that's another reason why we love partnering with you guys so much is that it's always about like, always, always, always about helping the merchant. And, know, I think that's, I think that typically in that ecosystem, we're talking about before the ones that actually are doing that all tend to gravitate together and the ones that aren't doing that. I kind of like really focused on self-serving tend to dissipate, whether it be agency or tech.

_{Brenden Rawson (14:54.284)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (15:02.436)}
You know, that's the one good, like I try, you know, I try and be positive, even if there's negatives. And I think that's one good thing that's coming out of this economic situation that we're all facing globally. Of course, in EECOM is that some of these, you know, providers and apps and things that aren't necessarily customer focused and interested in doing the right thing by the customer, whether it be pricing, service offering.

attention to detail, et cetera. They're just not going to survive in this economy and they're going to hemorrhage. So that's the one good thing is that I think the consumer is like actually reaching out to the right people to have the right people on their side and navigate them through these times. So that's the positives that I'm taking out of this.

_{Brenden Rawson (15:51.151)}
Yeah, of course. Yeah, you know, I shameless plug for GrowWave here, you know, things like, you know, total cost of ownership and things like loyalty, I think really matter now where, you know, you need to think about your tech stack costs, but you also need to think about creating a like a deeper engagement with your customers or your audience.

And we've been focusing a lot on the loyalty piece as well. And not just loyalty for loyalty sake, but like really building something that encapsulates your brand and speaks to your customers so that if there's only so many dollars to go around, you want to make sure as a brand, as a merchant, you're doing everything you can to create retention in your sales and in your audience and in community.

^{Joe Fox (16:45.284)}
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, to that point, I know you and I have discussed some pretty interesting ideas when it, you know, kind of comes to loyalty and I discussed this with Jason too. It's like, I think a lot of brands don't realize one, how many like loyal customers they have until they really get stuck into the data properly by working with, you know, a service provider and a partner such as yourselves. But two, I think, I think a lot of brands

you know, particularly kind of brands that are going after a higher income, you know, kind of consumer. They typically have in this, in this mindset of like, you know, we don't want to do loyalty because we don't want to offer discounts. We don't want to cheapen our product, et cetera. But the thing that, you know, I really like working with agencies such as yourself working with agencies like Tarbish over at Maastrat.

_{Brenden Rawson (17:20.876)}
So.

_{Brenden Rawson (17:31.592)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (17:41.579)}
is you can really like game out some cool ideas of things that people already have. So I'll take for instance, it's like, there's this very high profile New York jewelry business came through as a partner referral. I won't say who yet because they do want to keep it under wraps until we launch it. But the thing that I thought was really cool is they had thought of, we don't want to do loyalty, kind of cheapen the brand, et cetera, et cetera. But we're like,

_{Brenden Rawson (18:07.283)}
Yep.

^{Joe Fox (18:09.391)}
Well, you have customers that are buying from your regular release collections. Every single time you release a collection, they're buying some of these pieces that are upwards of 20, sometimes a hundred thousand dollars for these one pieces. And it's kind of like, you could like the questioning that we went through when we were pitching it is like, are you currently giving any behind the scenes experience to these loyal customers?

_{Brenden Rawson (18:21.816)}
Wow.

_{Brenden Rawson (18:35.293)}
Exactly.

^{Joe Fox (18:36.449)}
No, do you know the first names basis of these lower customers? No. Well, what's wrong with rewarding these customers who've already reached this tier or who are about to reach this tier on their next product and bringing them behind the scenes so that they can be with the master jewelry maker while they're making that next collection. That doesn't cost a cent for you. It gives you a whole bunch of new cool content that you can do. And do you think...

_{Brenden Rawson (18:56.524)}
Yeah. No.

^{Joe Fox (19:03.823)}
that that customer who always purchases from you is ever going to consider purchasing from someone else ever again? Absolutely not.

_{Brenden Rawson (19:10.92)}
There's VIP experiences, right? And we've done this with a few other brands as well, where there are literally some exclusive products that you can only get through being in your loyalty tiers. And then they become, because the community is so rife with this sports brand, they become coveted items, right? So this is not just about discounts. This is actually about deeper engagement. And then there's another fashion brand, which gives early access to sales.

which again is not necessarily about discounts, but if you're doing drops rather than like just a standard range and you have your seasonal drops, which is pretty common in fashion, to be able to get early access to that because of loyalty, like that's a true loyalty program.

^{Joe Fox (20:00.228)}
Absolutely. Yeah, we, think, young LA, our, our merchant in California, does drops in a very similar format. And I think that's like, for me, that's like, as a, as a consumer, putting my consumer hat on, I love that shit. Like that makes me feel special. You know what I mean? Like, and I'm more inclined to buy more. So I'm going to increase my AOV at that particular time because I'm feeling special. So, you know, there's a huge.

_{Brenden Rawson (20:19.018)}
Yeah, man.

^{Joe Fox (20:28.575)}
level of emotion that gets built through that. And we know that people often purchase because of emotion. So I think that's, that's pretty cool. You and I can talk about this forever. So I want to make sure we stay on track. So, okay, couple, couple more things, obviously big announcement recently with you joining our advisory board. I'm, no, thank you very much. mean, when, when I sort of, you know, came to Eldar with this idea and sort of put together

_{Brenden Rawson (20:40.78)}
Hahaha.

_{Brenden Rawson (20:49.442)}
Thank you very much.

^{Joe Fox (20:58.583)}
You know, my hit list, I'm lucky that every single person on the, on the hit list, you know, accepted very graciously and very quickly, which is, I feel is a very big Testament to grow wave and the product and to elder and everything that's been built there. But I, you know, I'm very excited for this because obviously you and I have known each other for so long now. And I think, it's, it's very, very cool for me to see.

you know, the absolute input that you put into everything you do. And selfishly, I'm so excited for your brutal, honest feedback on everything that we're doing. So I'm very excited for that. I know you're catching up with Eldar in Toronto. I definitely have some FOMO. It's like 5 million degrees outside and you're wearing it. You're wearing a jacket and I'm wearing like an airy sports shirt.

_{Brenden Rawson (21:46.316)}
Yeah.

Hehehehehe

^{Joe Fox (21:54.005)}
So I'm assuming, I'm assuming that you guys are enjoying better weather than me, but I just would love to get just, you know, like a little, I don't know, like highlight of, from you around, you know, kind of what was the catalyst for you, you know, making that decision to, to kind of join us and come on this journey, not just as a partner, you know, with Ames but as an advisory member, as, Brendan Rawson.

_{Brenden Rawson (22:19.042)}
Of course, no. again, thank you for the opportunity. I'm very humbled by it. But we, of course, known each other for a long time. And you introduced me to GrowWave a few years ago now. Fell in love with the product, but also just fell in love with the team. And it's not just that fact that we know each other, but I got to meet Elder, the CEO, and some of the other executive team, and just realized that these are

humble, genuine people building quality product, solving problems. And that resonates with me. That resonates from my history back being in product, but also in our decisions to work with Klaviyo instead of somebody else or another platform because they care about product. Good people and good product is good outcomes. And that's tend to be where I put my money or the horses I tender back. So.

very excited and humbled to be involved in the advisory and excited to sort of give you some candid feedback on product, both from a product side, which has been a few years now, but definitely as, I guess, a hyper user from an agency perspective, we'd like to really push a product and we try to break a product. And I think if you really care about product, that's the kind of people that you want to be listening to because

That's how you make true improvements. Yes, customer feedback is essential, but when you've got a ton of customers like Grow Wave has, it can be sort of desperate all over the place feedback. But I think when you have feedback from an agency, and I hope you feel this, it tends to be concentrated on the true actual issues.

^{Joe Fox (24:08.767)}
Yes!

_{Brenden Rawson (24:08.856)}
Because I think from internally in an agency, if we can have this feature or we could fix this thing, we could move fast so we can get better results. I think that has some weight to it.

^{Joe Fox (24:19.146)}
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think one of the things, you know, that I'm most excited about is, is you, you and the team and everyone at Ansem being hyper users of Klavyio, being hyper users of GrowWave, the combination and pairing of those both, us being in the customer hub soon for all of that analytical data. Like there's just so much exciting stuff, you know, to come. I think

_{Brenden Rawson (24:40.908)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (24:47.593)}
It's interesting, you know, for me, I always like having been, you know, on the agency side, having been on the tech side at a few different companies. The thing that I resonate with that you just said then too, is very much about like, there is such a focus at Grow Wave on product, on customer and having the right team members. And I think, you know, to your point, it's like, that is something I've really noticed.

about, and Zen and the hiring that you and Jason do is like your team are so nice and so customer focused. It's never about like billable hours. It's never about like anything. It's, like, how do we get the best possible outcome for the merchant? No matter what. And I really, really love that ethos. And yeah, I'm just, well, one, I'm excited that

you know, that we've gotten to continue this friendship, but to have Ames down as a partner, to have you personally on the board is just really exciting for me. So it's what fuels these super long days and lots of travel that we have to do, I guess.

_{Brenden Rawson (25:59.708)}
No, well, I appreciate it. it's, you know, we started in Australia, but like these days, you know, lot of my focus and you will see this from the travel as well is on the US market. You know, we're hiring some great people here, some great customer service people as well. And we just see such a tremendous opportunity in North America. And, you know, we've been lucky enough to leverage our

our tech partnerships and our relationships there where we've sort of already got this global reputation within those tech ecosystems and really working alongside our partners to get more, I guess, brand and merchant exposure in the US. It's my big mission, man.

^{Joe Fox (26:43.39)}
Absolutely. Well, I I think, you know, once again, this comes back to you being very humble, but I already think you're crushing it here. I mean, I think, you know, some of the brands that you're already working with here and the team that you already have here and the fact that you're, you already have a stellar reputation here. think, you know, this is the, gift and the curse of being humble. Right. It's like, you're always pushing for more and more and more. And that's super exciting. And I know you guys are going to get it, but I encourage you to,

_{Brenden Rawson (26:50.636)}
You

^{Joe Fox (27:12.734)}
When you've got some of these long flights ahead, just take a second and, you know, really have a look at where you're at and what you're doing because you're already crushing it here in the U S and, and I'm not the only one to say that by the way.

_{Brenden Rawson (27:24.612)}
Well, I appreciate it, but you you're from Australia. Originally, we have a tall poppy syndrome thing. We like to cut people down. So everyone tries to keep themselves a little humble. Some advice I got last year was throw that all out the window. When it comes to America, you've got to shout the loudest. You've got to, you know, you've got to bang your drum. You've got to toot your horn. You've got to go for it. So I'm still learning those skills.

^{Joe Fox (27:49.823)}
Yeah, well, it'll come soon, trust me. But yeah, look, Brendan. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Let the work speak for itself. But look, thank you so much for coming on board, man. Thank you for your friendship. Thank you for the partnership. Thank you for once again coming on the board. I'm very excited about what the next six to 12 months looks like on all of those fronts we just discussed.

_{Brenden Rawson (27:50.54)}
Hahaha.

In the meantime, we'll just do good work, right?

^{Joe Fox (28:19.247)}
I I'm very, very grateful and, you know, humbled that I've got, you know, this opportunity to have a close friendship with you and close partnership. go enjoy yourself in Toronto. Once again, I've got super FOMO. I think we've got a crazy thunderstorm that's going to roll in here again. We, we just lucked out the other day on actually having a tornado roll through here. We got the very edge of it. And I know we get some crazy storms in Brisbane.

But this was potentially the worst thunderstorm I've seen. yeah. So next suburb over literally had baseball sized hail. Yeah. So, so really crazy. So hopefully I don't get that today.

_{Brenden Rawson (28:48.276)}
Wow. Okay.

_{Brenden Rawson (28:54.794)}
Wow, wow. Yeah, I've packed for all climates. It's been a bit of a crazy trip. I've been in Spain for the summit. I'm over here in Toronto for editions. I'm back to Barcelona after this for Shop Talk EU. Flying back over to New York for Clevio's partner day, heading to LA for Clevio's partner day there.

back to New York, wrapping up with Roswell for their summer party. Again, another agency working together. Check out my brother in Vancouver on the way home and then finally make the way back to Brisbane. So it's gonna be a long trip, but lots of great opportunities to spend time with partners and friends alike.

^{Joe Fox (29:46.59)}
Absolutely super worth it. Well, I'll see you a 100 % see you at LA Klaviyo Partner Day, because we're sponsoring now. So we're one of those sponsors. And then if you're headed to Rachel's event that week, I'll see you in LA then again too. And then myself or Amanda, our head of CS will be in New York for Roswell's party and for Rachel's event. So.

_{Brenden Rawson (29:55.916)}
Nice, nice.

_{Brenden Rawson (30:13.452)}
How good?

^{Joe Fox (30:13.638)}
I don't know just yet if I'm doing that one as well, but we shall see. But looking forward to catching up in person very shortly. yeah, enjoy Toronto and enjoy the travels. I'm really, really excited to get your insights and everything on additions when we catch up in person.

_{Brenden Rawson (30:31.352)}
Looking forward to it, mate.

^{Joe Fox (30:33.134)}
Awesome. Thank you so much, Brendan. and lastly, where is the best place for everyone to connect with you?

_{Brenden Rawson (30:35.458)}
Thank you.

_{Brenden Rawson (30:39.96)}
LinkedIn to be honest. Yeah, Brandon Rawson or you can find me by the Anzen page, A-N-D-Z-E-N. LinkedIn is where I'm posting all of my work, travel, driving and flying. Yeah, getting a bit of a following there. So definitely hit me up on LinkedIn. We'll take it from there.

^{Joe Fox (31:00.893)}
Absolutely. I'll make sure that's linked in in the show notes and everything like that. But thank you so much for coming on and Thank you everyone for tuning into another episode of retain grow thrive. That was an amazing amazing Episode with my really good friend Brendan Rawson once again board member over here at grow wave And please be sure to connect with him on LinkedIn Check out and Zen if you really want to hear from the best absolute best in the clavio space

I know Brennan was very humble on that episode. Please, please, please follow and connect with him on LinkedIn. And if you're a brand who is struggling with any of your sort of life cycle marketing, any of your loyalty, any of your retention marketing, highly recommend getting in touch with Anzen. Thank you all so much for tuning into another episode and I'll see you again soon.