Murat Kaya: Director of Growth Marketing & Partnerships at Shopney

^{Joe Fox (00:00.426)}
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Retain Grow Thrive. This is season two. Today I'm very excited. I have a very, very young hungry entrepreneur friend of mine and a partner of Growave's on the show. you're out of, shop me and today motor art is going to be giving us a very, good overview of what shop me does talking about everything that's happening in the ecosystem.

and talking about how he manages his spare time being a male model. So without further ado, I'd like to welcome you to the show, my friend. How you doing?

_{Murat Kaya (00:37.894)}
Yeah, all good. Good to see you. Good to be in this show. So excited to learn from you during our chat and I will be more than happy if I can just share something valuable.

^{Joe Fox (00:50.7)}
Absolutely, yeah, no, I know for a fact you can because I feel that there are so many great initiatives that you're doing, so many great merchants that you're working with. So can we backtrack just a little bit? I really wanna first talk about who and what Shopney is, what you guys do, the types of merchants you work with, your ICP, because I think that'll give the audience a really good background.

and then I'd love to dive more into your story and you know, how you became a founder and how you got started with shop me is, that cool with you?

_{Murat Kaya (01:29.036)}
yeah, definitely. So, Shopney is a mobile application builder, working only for Shopify and Shopify Plus merchants. So we help Shopify merchants to convert their websites into native mobile applications so that they can actually improve four key metrics in their business operations as retention, conversion, marketing at spend, and engagement. So this is what we do at Shopny and

Shopney is very prominent in the marketplace with its reliability, absolutely immense customer satisfaction score and the advancing cutting edge technology.

diving into my personal story. I'm an engineering graduate, ex-advertising creative, and got an invitation from my friends who are the founders of Shopney. Seven years ago, okay bro, so we have this product, we will go global, you know how to market, we don't know, so let's...

get together and do this together. And back then I was actually having little to no knowledge about what SaaS is, what technology is, let alone being an e-commerce kind of expert, you know? So I had to learn everything from scratch. It was very hard, but as you go along, it just like gets a bit smoother, gets a bit easier, but...

What we have kept from day one is actually the hunger for learning and sharing what we learned and implementing what we have learned into our way of doing things and our technology and our services. I guess that led us to have this legacy, if you will, in the ecosystem. And we are pretty satisfied with what we have achieved and having the same hunger almost for the future.

^{Joe Fox (03:22.75)}
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Love that insight. And I feel like, you know, you've really seized this opportunity that was presented to you in the best way possible. mean, I knew that you had the advertising kind of background, but to come into something, you know, as senior as the, as the position you're in and really run with what you're doing and not have that, you know, SAS background and what you've been able to achieve is

Very impressive my friend, so that's awesome.

_{Murat Kaya (03:52.408)}
Thank you, man. I mean you can learn everything if you know how to learn I guess that that would be the best skill that you can develop in your in your business life, you know, in in this era, you know, like everything is just like moving fast changing fast evolving fast What you know today is actually meaningless almost like in a couple of months time. So you need to be adaptive you need to be actually Strengthening that muscle of learning things easy and solidly. So

I guess it helped us very, very much.

^{Joe Fox (04:22.225)}
Absolutely.

Yeah, no, that's a very good way of framing it. It's like learning how to learn. And I think, you know, if we have a look at the schooling system and stuff, you don't really learn that. You kind of learn how to memorize things and then recite them back. And it's not really any sort of level of independent thinking or learning, but that's very good point at point. So I'll make sure I write that one down, learn how to learn.

_{Murat Kaya (04:37.474)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (04:51.995)}
Okay, so let's I also I want to dive a little bit into you know, you've told me a little bit about shopping as a product, the issues that you're solving. Tell me a little bit more about your ICP. I mean, you're very similar to grow wave in the fact that we're Shopify and Shopify plus only I know we have a lot of shared merchants. But you know, can you run me through who are perfect fit? ICP shopping, merchant is is there

particular verticals that you love to focus on.

_{Murat Kaya (05:25.24)}
yeah, so that was actually on point. The similarities in between GrowWave and Shopee, although these two are like completely different products, but actually falling into same bracket, I guess, because it's all about retention today. As the markets are getting saturated, as the channels are getting saturated, retention is the thing.

^{Joe Fox (05:40.508)}
Yes, yep.

_{Murat Kaya (05:48.75)}
these two apps, these two technologies are actually giving the benefit in the same channel and complementing each other in the best possible way, I guess. So when it comes to our ideal business and customer profile, as I've mentioned, as Shopney, we are offering Shopify and Shopify Plus businesses a significant improvement on four key business metrics as conversion, retention, marketing spend, and engagement. So that said,

An ideal Shopify business profile to get the most out of Shopney as a mobile education builder would be one getting more than at least 5,000 unique visitors per month on mobile and spending over $10,000 a month on social ads and having a product line which can attract shoppers to buy different items in a given season and having a repeat customer rate of

5 % and above would be the best actually starting point. And regardless of the industry, if your store actually matches the above mentioned criteria, it's almost certain that you will crush it with the mobile application. No doubt about

^{Joe Fox (07:05.298)}
Yes. Yeah. I think, I think the, you know, you've touched on some really good points there. mean, lifetime cost about customer value is such an important metric that I, you know, to your point, it's like the market is getting so saturated. So things like having a mobile application, things like having a solid loyalty program in place, I almost feel used to be, or maybe even a year ago,

were things that were nice to have, but I really think that they're a need to have now for merchants. I don't think merchants have a choice. If you want to be successful and you are of a certain size and you're not, you're not really focusing on increasing AOV from your loyal customers and from your customers that are so loyal that they would consider having an application of their, on their phone of that brand. You're really missing out. I think,

It's just table stakes now and if brands aren't doing it, they certainly should be.

_{Murat Kaya (08:08.75)}
And you know, man, so when we actually check what Shopify itself is doing and just leaning on more towards retention because they also know it's harder than ever for any merchant to acquire new customers. So they cannot sell that. It's not going to work, you know, it's just like very, very hard to work for anyone anymore.

^{Joe Fox (08:27.941)}
Yup. Yup.

^{Joe Fox (08:35.695)}
Yes, yeah, absolutely.

_{Murat Kaya (08:36.494)}
But when you have the right type of understanding and the communication with your customers, and that's the biggest, I actually say that in so many different occasions, in so many different times, the best retention tool is actually your brain. So use it to understand your customer. So I guess we will jump into that later on about how Shopify is actually...

shaping the future of e-commerce for the Shopify ecosystem. That's very important.

^{Joe Fox (09:09.233)}
Well, we can do that now because I think that's a really, you know, that's a great segue into that point. think, you know, from what we're seeing, and this is, know, exactly as you said, there is saturation in the market. There's all sorts of up and coming new merchants. There's verticals that are moving in to Shopify that haven't been in Shopify in the past. But the issue is, I mean, whether everyone wants to admit it or not.

there is some turbulence happening in the world at the moment. Got conflicts all over the world. You know, everyone says that we're not officially in a recession, but it certainly feels like it a lot of the time and I'm sure it does for... Yeah. So I think, you know, and even things, sorry, on that point, like Shopify now opening up to crypto wallets and all sorts of things. I mean, there are all of these different...

_{Murat Kaya (09:51.534)}
More than recession, man, more than recession.

^{Joe Fox (10:07.579)}
moving parts that are happening, you know, in the world and that are implementing, sorry, that are affecting some for good, some for bad, the Shopify ecosystem. And I think, you know, to the point of what we were discussing before, this loyalty, retention, brand in your pocket kind of situation is so crucial and so key. And I think as

You know, everything evolves with like what Shopify is doing with chat GPT. Now those sorts of things are going to be amazing. And I'm sure you've already thought of this because I know how your brain works, but like being able to actually have so that it's recommending the link to download the mobile application to your phone through chat GPT. mean, that's so powerful. And then how do you take that a step further? So

_{Murat Kaya (10:41.387)}
O.Y.

^{Joe Fox (11:03.332)}
Sorry, that was a bit of a word salad, but I just, find it fascinating where it's all headed.

_{Murat Kaya (11:09.676)}
Yeah, so you know, so I actually want to take it from my way of doing things, especially for Shopify. So as we are running as a Shopify partner, I have to keep an eye on what Shopify does, what Shopify thinks, what Shopify plans for the future in order to stay in line and intact with what's going on in the ecosystem. So.

I guess we have, and personally I have done this in a good level so far because I have learned from Shopify itself for marketing because I consider I'm just trying to convert someone who actually converted by Shopify as a Shopify merchant. So what works for them with their Shopify scales would actually easily be transferred and

^{Joe Fox (11:52.389)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (12:01.964)}
Translated into our case and like the same dynamics would would also work for the same guy Yeah, so that was a pretty pretty simple logic, but it is very very effective so that's the reason that I'm actually trying to See learn consume whatever I can find about what Shopify as a company thinks and predicts about the future so Shopify additions, which I missed this year's so in Toronto

^{Joe Fox (12:07.385)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (12:29.732)}
Me too, me too, I didn't go, Eldar got to go.

_{Murat Kaya (12:31.06)}
Yeah, I'm event guy and I am the unlucky guy this time. I was actually the guy who was showing off joining all these events, but now, I mean, that was not my... Yeah, maybe we need to wait for technology to develop a little bit more for that kind of stuff. Anyway, so when we look at the Shopify...

^{Joe Fox (12:45.263)}
We can't be everywhere. That's the way I look at it.

^{Joe Fox (12:54.817)}
Absolutely.

_{Murat Kaya (12:57.998)}
20 to 25 editions, you can see how Shopify is actually doubling down on performance, personalization, and retention. And at Shopify, we see this shift from the front lines. So Shopify wants brands to own their audience, reduce dependency on third-party channels, create direct and high-converting customer journeys, because that's the only way. And that's why we are now focusing on helping merchants turn

their mobile traffic into repeat customers through high performing mobile applications, personalized push notifications and in-app loyalty engagement, which we have, for example, in the deepest possible level with GrowWave, luckily and happily. And so when you connect the dots with Shopify's investment in smart infrastructure, it's very clear that the future of e-commerce is actually personal, mobile and retention first. It's no longer mobile first.

^{Joe Fox (13:54.883)}
Yes.

_{Murat Kaya (13:56.598)}
Retention first.

^{Joe Fox (13:58.159)}
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. mean, the, if you just, you know, from, my side, Murat, we talk to so many agencies, right? That are constantly working with, you know, sometimes really well established brands that are quite large. And then we also deal with agencies that are talking to up and coming brands that are, you know, moving through the ecosystem and starting to grow to a point where they want to grow even larger.

And the thing that I find fascinating is that a lot of the time these brands aren't thinking of the strategy of how to retain and impress their existing customers who are so much easier to get to repurchase, right? By the way, like it's a fraction of the cost, but they're consistently focusing on top end of the funnel. How do we bring more?

more customers and more merchants through. But I think it's so important to all of these points we've discussed, focus on optimizing that second half of the funnel for one, which is where something like Shopney has a lot of relevance and Grow Wave. But it's like you should at least be putting equal parts in top of the funnel and the ongoing funnel.

not just focusing all of your effort and spend at the top of the funnel. And I think it's crazy to me and crazy to a lot of these agencies that that's still unfortunately the approach a lot of merchants are taking today is.

_{Murat Kaya (15:35.63)}
I mean, it's a muscle memory that they've developed in the last decade. So it's not easy for them to quit and just like get into something new, which requires different set of...

I mean, tactics, different implementations, et cetera. And as you, as having a model physique and dealing with the building, so I guess you understand this concept very best,

^{Joe Fox (16:05.796)}
No, I just think it's one of those situations where, you know, I completely agree. I think it's a habit. It's something that merchants are used to doing. I think, you know, kind of to my point of these agencies seeing this on varying scales, sometimes they don't even listen to the agency. That's kind of my point is like they don't understand that agencies are on the front lines.

seeing what works the best, understand e-commerce so much because they're doing, you know, we spoke about this earlier where it's like things change every month. Well, I think for these agencies, sometimes things change every day. That's how granular and how much mastery they possess. So I think, you know, it would be crazy for brains to not listen to agencies and suggest the things that are working versus what is not. That's kind of my point.

_{Murat Kaya (17:03.798)}
yeah. And you know, like as a merchant, are only dealing with your brand, but the agency dealing with your competitors, maybe, you know, like different brands from different industries. So they actually see how the dynamics are shaping overall e-commerce realities. So I guess that would be the wisest to listen to your agency. mean, like, course not every agency, but I mean, like there are enough...

^{Joe Fox (17:08.758)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (17:22.986)}
Absolutely.

_{Murat Kaya (17:31.934)}
e-commerce personalities and e-commerce agencies who can be very, very reliable in that kind of turbulent times.

^{Joe Fox (17:42.113)}
Absolutely, absolutely. Going back a little bit, I just kind of want to change pace here a little bit. I wanted to kind of highlight because I know we have a lot of, you know, shared merchants throughout Europe, Central Asia, a lot of the audience and a lot of the guests I've had, you know, and you yourself are living within Europe. We very much have been focused quite a lot on US with

tariffs and everything like that. A lot of the guests have been speaking about that. I'd love to whilst you're here, you know, being in the EU, what is your experience like? Or what are you hearing from a lot of merchants over there about what is happening with tariffs? Are they, you know, if they're selling a lot to the US is that impacting them? Or are they getting supplies from the US? that impacting them? I'd love to

hear from you what the general sentiment is on tariffs at the moment.

_{Murat Kaya (18:43.35)}
yeah. So, you know, if they're not actually doing something disruptive, these tariffs and ongoing recession feeling, unofficial recession, or if you like. So it's actually making everyone think and just like, they're just trying to be defensive, you know, because they know, they know their shoppers, their target audience, the actual...

^{Joe Fox (18:56.277)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (19:03.744)}
Yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (19:10.73)}
guy who will buy the product from their store is actually in defense mode now. Because that's actually shaping consumers' behaviors first, and then you react as a merchant. And me, with my shopper and consumer personality, I'm also in defense mode, to be honest. I'm just trying to save more than ever because I don't know what's going to happen because anything can happen tomorrow.

^{Joe Fox (19:15.915)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (19:30.719)}
Yeah, yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (19:40.78)}
So that's, that's the psychology side of the things. And when it comes to, okay guys, so like we have this reality, retention, recession tariffs and all that. So how can we go around it? You know, if we can find a way just to minimize the effect of it, you know, maybe changing, changing the audience because you know, selling to us is very, very lucrative on paper, but it's now not as much. maybe.

^{Joe Fox (20:09.301)}
Yes.

_{Murat Kaya (20:10.326)}
maybe spending the same amount of money finding another consumer in a different part of the world, if I can just like go cross border, then it will be actually helping me for this transition time, at least till the time that everything gets settled. I will just actually keep this ship sailing and then I will find another way or just like eventually things will just evaporate and like get back to normal.

^{Joe Fox (20:38.773)}
Absolutely, yeah. I think that's such a good way of framing it. And you're right, it is about getting through a shopper's defenses at the moment to a degree, right? It's like how...

_{Murat Kaya (20:51.444)}
yeah man i i'm also curious i'm also curious about you yourself like you i as far as i know you are a father yeah

^{Joe Fox (20:57.886)}
No, no, no, not a father, not a father. Husband, yes, but my shopping habits at the moment, because I know that we both like to dress well and we're always out showing off on LinkedIn, but look, I find, I've actually found myself probably in a similar mode to you, a bit more defensive at the moment. I'm definitely saving.

^{Murat Kaya (20:59.988)}
Okay, so.

^{Joe Fox (21:26.529)}
more than I probably ever have. And I think I've probably been a little bit more focused on where my shopping budget is being allocated. So instead of what I probably would do in the past where I'd be looking for new brands and new brands and new styles and new things, I'm kind of sticking to the basics, but doing what I know works and the brands that I

you know, have loved all the time. And maybe also too, probably going for things that are a little bit better quality. So, you know, kind of looking for those brands that I know have a good, no matter what product it is, that are gonna last quite well. They may not be the most expensive, but I'm kind of looking for longevity in my purchases now a little bit more than what I used to, which is interesting.

_{Murat Kaya (22:17.666)}
Yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (22:24.046)}
Yeah, exactly. that's also not actually that behavior is actually translating into another problem for the merchants. If it actually gets sustained, then the average lifetime value of a customer is now decreasing with that habit.

^{Joe Fox (22:42.836)}
Yes. Yeah. However, I am kind of going back to those brands that I know are really high quality. like I'm going to use Sunspell, for example, their English brand or based in the UK, all their products I believe are made in Portugal. I buy like I wear a lot of t-shirts. And so if I buy from, say, for example,

I'm not sure another local, if I buy from a US local kind of brand, the wear of those t-shirts isn't as long as if I purchase the one more expensive Sunspelt t-shirt that I know will last me for, I don't know, a hundred washes or something crazy. So I guess it is kind of like, that's brand loyalty to a degree, right? It's, know that that product lasts.

_{Murat Kaya (23:36.236)}
Yes, absolutely.

^{Joe Fox (23:38.397)}
I'm going back to them because I less of the same product but one that's going to last a lot longer. I think it's kind of that is a form of being a defensive shopper, I guess.

_{Murat Kaya (23:51.855)}
Oh yeah, and that's actually what is actually being a brand, you know? When the crunch times comes, you should be in the top of the mines. So that actually makes you a brand. So that's actually from the real life, from a real shopper, you know? I guess that's really important.

^{Joe Fox (24:03.133)}
Yes. Yes.

^{Joe Fox (24:10.803)}
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, then next question that I love this question, because, you know, you know, speaking of traveling and being at every event, I know you travel a lot. I feel like you're in London all the time. I always like to ask, guess this. What is...

one thing you cannot live without traveling and you can't say family or person or anything. It's got to be an item or an object.

_{Murat Kaya (24:44.958)}
yeah, item and an object. my God. I mean, you know, I fall in love with African music in a visit of mine to Zanzibar, you know.

^{Joe Fox (25:00.716)}
wow, okay. Like Afrobeats? Like that stuff?

_{Murat Kaya (25:03.566)}
Oh man, like yeah, any kind. So I actually have dive into that hole and it's just like a universe. It's a gem, African music. I mean, it's not everyone's type, but I just like feel like I'm stuck in a white man's body as a black guy, you know?

^{Joe Fox (25:15.721)}
Nice.

^{Joe Fox (25:22.935)}
Ha

_{Murat Kaya (25:26.606)}
So yeah, guess now I can say that easily. I love African music and travel is my sport, you so I need to be distant as many times as I can during the year. And yeah, travel is actually what makes me feel alive.

^{Joe Fox (25:46.684)}
Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's a very good comment as well. Very good insight. Yeah, it's funny you say that. I've been a fan of Afrobeats for like, trying to think, probably since around 2016, so what, like 10 years now. I have a very, well, my two of my very close friends.

One is from Taff. So he's a founder of a really cool app in Australia that's very focused on the hospitality. So food and beverage space. The other is my really good friend, Mayowa, who lived in Australia, but now lives in London. And he's from Nigeria. Taff's from Zimbabwe. So they've always given me like their playlists and you know, they've got

_{Murat Kaya (26:27.693)}
Yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (26:43.98)}
So yeah, that's a huge gift, man. mean, like if you can just give those playlists to me, I would be also appreciate it.

^{Joe Fox (26:45.161)}
it's awesome, it's fantastic.

^{Joe Fox (26:50.526)}
I will, I will after this call, but yeah, great music. Always very happy, very vibey, puts you in a good mood. yeah, very big fan. I think my favorites are probably like, I really like Burn A Boy. I like Wizkid. Yeah. Couple of others. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. But I'll definitely share those playlists for sure. Okay. So music is the answer on that one.

_{Murat Kaya (27:05.481)}
yeah, I love it, yeah. This last one, my favorite film.

^{Joe Fox (27:20.509)}
And then lastly, guess to kind of wrap us wrap us up is where can people learn more about you? Where can people get in if they want to check out shop me? Is there any offers you want to give? Obviously, there's a lot of agency partners that watch this show technology partners, but also merchants. Is there anything that you want to, you know, specifically offer to the audience?

_{Murat Kaya (27:47.202)}
Yeah, so if they would like to reach out to me, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. Although this year I'm like not sharing as much as I was in the past, so like pretty lower. But I'm always reachable, so they can just hit me on LinkedIn.

^{Joe Fox (28:09.245)}
And I'll make sure that link is in the show notes. Yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (28:13.418)}
Okay, lovely. And when it comes to getting more information and learning more about Shopney, our website is going to be the final and the best destination. And you can just like reach out to someone, real person, you know, to hop on a call, deep dive on any specific part of the product or the service. You can just like simply knock the door and get the best answer.

I guess that would be the way.

^{Joe Fox (28:44.028)}
Perfect, perfect, absolutely. I'll make sure that that's included in the show notes as well. And then lastly, my friend, what is, this is what I'm doing that's new for season two. You've given out some really, really good insights about, you know, travel, you know, being able to be teachable and learning how to learn. There's some really good, great quotes there.

But what is one piece of advice that you would give, you know, a person who's younger than you and I coming into this SaaS industry or coming into the technology or agency space? What's one piece of advice you'd give to that person?

_{Murat Kaya (29:28.268)}
yeah, I guess let's say considering someone who is younger joining into this space and doing something similar to what you and I do. Especially having this interpersonal skills, know, marketing, communication kind of stuff. That is, if you are actually coming into the show as that type of persona, then...

^{Joe Fox (29:39.93)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (29:57.354)}
learning how to learn is the key and you know, although we will have a greater presence of AI in our day-to-day life, it's not gonna replace human beings. It's gonna help human beings to get superior. This is how I perceive it and as two relatively successful professionals in this space, know, what you

What made you who you are today, what made me who I am today is actually having this understanding of human psychology and having this skill of building relationships, know, understanding the other side of the game so that you can actually create value. That's going to remain at the core. It has always been at the core.

^{Joe Fox (30:46.972)}
Absolutely, absolutely.

_{Murat Kaya (30:52.744)}
and will remain no matter what how AI just develops and just occupies the territory. It's going to be at the core. guess that would be the best skill to develop.

^{Joe Fox (31:05.816)}
Absolutely. I love that. I know that that is going to be the little clip that we use for the promotion of this. So, no, I love that. That's an incredible insight and very true. I think it's so easy for us to get caught up in the hype of everything that's going on with AI and get scared about the world and all of those sorts of things. But, you know, to your point, be a good person, have good relationships, learn how to add value and yeah.

_{Murat Kaya (31:32.362)}
Yeah, man, the goal is for human. So without human, would be no AI, no nothing. So you as a human will be at the center of the game every time. This is how I build.

^{Joe Fox (31:38.307)}
Absolutely.

Absolutely. That was great. I, I know, I know that was great. That was a nice fresh reminder for me for the week, my friend. So thank you so much for that. I love that. I'm really excited to do a part two of this. I know that we've got some really, really cool kind of collaboration going on in the backend that we'll be able to speak about as well. But I love seeing your journey. I love catching up with you, man. You're a very, very good human being. Grave, Grave.

_{Murat Kaya (31:56.061)}
that would be fun.

_{Murat Kaya (32:09.71)}
Thank very much, man. Thank you very much for having me.

^{Joe Fox (32:12.655)}
Grateful to have you as a friend and and I know our Eldar and Carlos the super grateful, you know for our friendship as well as our partnership and all of those sorts of things. So I wish you nothing but continued success my friend and thank thank you so much for coming on.

_{Murat Kaya (32:27.96)}
Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having me and I truly enjoyed every single moment of this interview or chat, let's say. So I would love to do it again anytime you like. Okay.

^{Joe Fox (32:42.827)}
Excellent. Excellent. Thank you so much. Audience, thank you so much for tuning into another episode. I'm sure you found that as good as I did. Murat is such a nice friendly guy. Shopney is such a great company. And to the point we're discussing, it's more important than ever to focus on lifetime customer value and really, really embedding yourselves into your customers lives if you're a merchant. So

If you're an agency or a merchant and you want to chat to Shopney and Murat and the team, I really encourage you to click the links below. If not, I shall see you again on the next episode. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Retain Grow Thrive Season 2. Peace.