Rachel Jacobs: Advisory Board Member with Growave and Founder of EAG

^{Joe Fox (00:00.877)}
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of retain growth thrive, the grow wave podcast. I'm your host Joe Fox, the president at grow wave. Today I am joined by someone that is not only a close personal friend, but they are the number one authority in agency growth in the e-commerce space globally. Rachel Jacobs needs no introduction, but I'm going to give her one because her outstanding career speaks for itself. So

She is the head of EAG. She has managed and exited several high profile agencies. She is a board advisory member to some of your favorite softwares, Klaviyo, Gorgias, Growave, and as well as an agency advisor to some of the best agencies in the world, including Andzen. I've been very, very lucky to know Rachel for quite a few years and I'm very excited to do this episode because I think

_{Rachel Jacobs (00:37.448)}
So, what advice do you have about...

_{Rachel Jacobs (00:49.8)}
that.

^{Joe Fox (00:57.463)}
For all of our agency partners today who are watching and who aren't a part of the EAG growth group, I really, really encourage you to check it out to get in touch with Rachel because Rachel has so much knowledge around scaling growth, how to stop your agency hemorrhaging and essentially how to survive and thrive in the e-commerce agency space. So Rachel, thank you so much for coming on board.

_{Rachel Jacobs (00:58.034)}
about.

_{Rachel Jacobs (01:03.57)}
while we're re-engineering our system.

_{Rachel Jacobs (01:22.082)}
Thanks for having me. I don't need to say anymore. don't need to do an introduction. Maybe I'll just take that and just add it to the front of my website or every time somebody talks to me I'll be like there we go. And I'll call myself the president of agencies.

^{Joe Fox (01:29.356)}
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

No, I love that. love that. But no, honestly, I mean, it's 100 % true. mean, I've, I've had the good fortune of knowing you for some time now through various roles and various interactions. And I think, you know, the work that you do with some of our, you know, close friends like and Zen and the way that you've been able to help agencies as a whole in this community is, it's just amazing. And I think I really, really enjoy the fact that you're a no bullshit.

dead set honest person as well. think there's a lot of fluff and a lot of, a lot of, you know, a lot of, a lot of bullshit and a lot of, you know, talk and no action, unfortunately, you know, amongst your competitors. But I think that's what, you know, has allowed you to be so successful in everything that you do is that you're no bullshit, you're honest, you're straight to the point. I've been on the receiving end of that sometimes too, but I'm grateful for it. And

_{Rachel Jacobs (02:12.082)}
Bullshit.

Joe Fox (02:33.964)
I really would love, you know, today if, if, as I said, if any of the agency partners who are in our network globally, aren't a part of the amazing community you've built, really encourage them to be. So I'll make sure that that's linked in the show notes, but Rachel, tell us a little bit more about what EAG is and how it benefits agencies that are involved.

_{Rachel Jacobs (02:58.384)}
Yeah, well, I I've been in the agency space now probably for close to a decade. Ironically, was tech brand side for Weebit, but that was more of a nightmare than experience. Then tech side building out partner programs of CMO of a tech solution in the category that was one of the top in the Shopify space. So that was my first experience really working with agencies.

And then I started working. I was doing a lot of marketing and marketing operations with businesses in the e-commerce space. Then went to the dark side and joined an agency as a COO. So that was really my first proper introduction. I'd never done agencies before or e-commerce and it was just chaos. This was like 2016. So Shopify plus had just hit the market. Gorgeous was relatively new. Klaviy was relatively new.

So I was COO of an agency where we built out a lot of the EMEA integrations for those technologies. I built the first Klaviyo retainer, well, what it is now, which is a retainer stack, but back then we didn't know what we were doing. We just knew that we were building, designing websites and we had this amazing ecosystem of tech partners. And, you know, how do I connect the tech with the growth, with the brands that we're building sites for? It was really early on in that kind of evolution of the industry.

So it's been a massive journey. And then I scaled that agency, we scaled the agency pretty significantly in the two or three years that I was there, building retainer models, built off tech stacks, putting systems processes, trying as best as possible to pull the finder out of the day to day so we could put people in and around that. So I think a lot of all of the mistakes pretty much that you could get in an agency, I really got a baptism of fire in that agency, but it was an amazing training ground.

And then I started e-commerce partnerships and then split that out into e-commerce partnerships and e-commerce agency growth. With e-commerce partnerships, obviously the stuff I do with the partners and the agency summits and we built a massive community of about 20,000 agencies internationally exclusively in e-commerce. And e-commerce agency growth was just this community that was born through COVID. So 2020, the year after I started the first business, COVID hit, I had a handful of European clients.

_{Rachel Jacobs (05:15.528)}
even smaller handful of US clients. And the US clients were asking like, what's happening over in Europe because it hit us first. And then when I started connecting them, then we started, we did like this weekly, I think it was called like the agency round table or something like that agency mastermind agency round table, something like that in early 2020. And then there was 15 people, then there was 200 people. And I think within six months, there were several thousand members that were in that little community. So it just happened.

^{Joe Fox (05:22.889)}
Yes, yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (05:45.447)}
By default, COVID obviously exploded the industry. And then a lot of the work that I was doing with agencies, which was building processes, operationalizing agencies, systems, retainers, hiring, firing, management team, leadership structure, pulling the owner out of the day to day and filling in all the gaps as sort of like an operations person. All of that stuff over the years, I then kind of not productize, but kind of put together in like boot camps and processes.

And then eventually it's created this community where people agencies live in there. They have access to all the years of training and the decade of resources and also the other agencies that are there. So it's a nice, sweet community. feels like a bit of a, I'd say tribe. Other people may say cult. It's my way or no way. But it's great agencies. And I think running your own business, it allows you to really hone in on the profile of people that you want to have in your community.

for the type of people that we're working with. So it just means that when we're together in Austin, for example, for the agency summit, everybody just gets along super well because it's all similar people. I'm the guard dog. I'm the person at the gate that's deciding, is this person going to come and add value? We're not all the same, but we all add value in different ways. And some people that are quieter, some people are louder, some people, you know, that have loads of experience, some people less experienced, but everybody has something to bring to the community. And I see with a lot of these

online, just memberships in general. It's just a money game. Like everybody's just in it to earn a ton, like as much money as possible with as low lifts. So it means that you just have a load of shit in there and just a load of people that are just like leeches just looking to leech off people. And I've never, so my community probably hasn't grown nearly as quickly as it could have if I had just had it as a money driving thing. you know, I think it's really important. I think what makes a community

^{Joe Fox (07:18.973)}
Yes. Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (07:43.337)}
valuable is to have the right people. Like we have the agency retreat, we have an annual retreat here in Grand Canaria where I live next to Morocco and there's 30-35 people that come to that and I always think to myself if I let somebody come into this community can I be stuck out on a boat on a catamaran in the middle of the ocean with them? If I can't do that for five hours they are not coming into the community. I do not want to take the risk of being in prison in Grand Canaria because I chucked somebody off a boat because they're annoying.

^{Joe Fox (07:45.95)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (08:11.113)}
That's a great filter to have mind you. That's, that's a really good way to filter it. And I think, you know, to your point, I really love the fact that you've built this community where everyone does get along and help each other. Because I think, you know, there's often, this, you know, from the outside, I think there's often a, misinterpretation of the fact where it's like, well,

_{Rachel Jacobs (08:13.8)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (08:36.508)}
Aren't these a whole bunch of my competitors? And I really liked that ethos you bring where it's like rising tides, lift all ships, pardon the pun of what we were just talking about with the, with the filter, but I really liked that. And I see that, you know, having been on the tech partner side and investing and, working with you on some of these events is that everyone who is there wants to be there. Everyone who is there is wanting to add value and help others avoid.

_{Rachel Jacobs (08:43.858)}
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

^{Joe Fox (09:05.617)}
some of the pitfalls and mistakes, you know, that they've made in the past. And I think, you know, to your point, the, one of the things that I love that you do is this systemization and this focus of getting the owner out of the day to day and actually focusing on the business and using systems to do that and building, building processes so that they don't have to be engulfed in the trenches every day because

_{Rachel Jacobs (09:25.052)}
through that and building processes, cells of data.

everybody. That's very scary.

^{Joe Fox (09:32.423)}
That's a very scary position to be in as an agency owner when you're having to do 90 % of everything. You haven't built that team around you, all those systems, all those processes around you. And I can speak from that, from experience having my agency, figuring that out without a community took so much longer. And I wish there had been access, you know, to something like EAG back then, because it would have just rocketed our growth and

_{Rachel Jacobs (09:41.896)}
those parts as a student. I can speak from that experience.

_{Rachel Jacobs (09:52.776)}
how to access the light.

^{Joe Fox (10:01.2)}
made the journey more enjoyable.

_{Rachel Jacobs (10:03.366)}
Yeah, at the end of the day, it's tough. I mean, obviously I'm biased, but I agency life will really find your weaknesses and expose them. It's like the hardest. If you can run an agency, you can basically do anything. It is really tough. So for me, it's like having, especially for solo finders, I mean, I work with it. There's a ton of agencies in there that have multiple owners, but especially solo finders where it feels very isolating. And solo finders will always come to me and say, God, I just wish I had another finder. And I'm like, trust me, you don't.

Believe me when I tell you, you don't, you're better off doing it alone. But if you can surround yourself with like-minded people who are there to kind of support you and they can kind of go through the trenches with you or, you know, I've experienced that before. It sucks that you have the senior leadership person in your company that messes you around or messes up with a client or whatever the situation you use, lose a really big client and you can commiserate with each other. But again, that comes down to trust and having people that are really like-minded. Ultimately, for a lot of agencies, mergers and acquisitions is

^{Joe Fox (10:31.779)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (10:55.56)}
Mm.

_{Rachel Jacobs (11:00.956)}
the ultimate goal, not for everybody, but for a lot of people. And I'm very fortunate that in our community, we have a number of successful exits and a number of successful mergers, even stuff that's in progress right now, because a lot of the success comes down to aligning with people where you're already like minded and you're looking for the same goal. And you can see what the strengths and weaknesses are in each other. So you can kind of have a bit of a jigsaw effect. So that's also been really nice. It all comes down to trust.

^{Joe Fox (11:02.812)}
Yes.

_{Rachel Jacobs (11:29.254)}
And it means that we're going to Austin together and Scotland together and Mexico and like all these different countries that we've been to all over the world and had all these different experiences. And that's really where the trust is made. So it's more than just a few documents or a few phone calls here or there. You know, it's much bigger than that. And for me, I mean, you've got like K-Boston that's just coming up around the corner. A ton of agencies that are all going to be there from our community, our partners are all going to be there together. And I get the selfies.

^{Joe Fox (11:29.84)}
Yes.

_{Rachel Jacobs (11:57.649)}
on WhatsApp of people that are meeting up with each other. And for me, that just makes me so happy that mommy doesn't need to be there overseeing everything all of the time.

^{Joe Fox (12:03.528)}
Absolutely. mean, you know, and that's a real credit to, everything you've done to build this ethos within that community, because, you know, I look at some of the other communities that I'm a part of, you know, the e-commerce Australia community, that's just a whole, you know, it's a lot of merchants in there. It's some partners at some agencies and it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a good

community and the fact that there's regular communication in there, but it's very, I would say outward pushing, like everyone's pushing an agenda. Yeah. Yeah. Very transactional. like you wouldn't be able to lean in there and say, you know, Hey, I'm having an issue with X, Y, and Z in my personal life. Whereas I know for a fact, you can do that within the communities that you've built. everyone becomes very, you know, good friends. Everyone supports each other. If you've got like-minded.

_{Rachel Jacobs (12:38.598)}
was gonna say largely transactional. Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (13:00.857)}
individuals in certain hobbies, there's even certain, you know, relationships that are formed outside of it. So I really love that. And I'm grateful to be be a small part and an amazing community that you put together. So thank you. I'm going to dive straight into this too, Rach, because I think this is often an opportunity for us, you know, to to connect with our partners that are watching this and our customers and everything. So

I'm going to frame two questions to you. First one being is we have a lot of customers in a lot of different verticals at Grow Wave. Some are working with agencies for certain things. Some are doing everything in-house on their own. So I just want to, I think this is a good opportunity because I always reiterate it on the podcast, but why should brands always be working with an agency? What are your thoughts around that? Because I know a lot of brands tend to have

this mentality of, we don't need external help. know everything, but you and I both know that's not the case.

_{Rachel Jacobs (14:06.472)}
Yeah, I don't think every brand is right for every agency. I don't think every brand needs to work with an agency, but it just depends on the mindset of the brand. if a brand is looking to grow and have a competitive advantage, having somebody external who has access or visibility across the industry in general, that's hugely advantageous. Like that really is very advantageous for brand. think unfortunately what happens is you have a lot of team members in-house who are amazing team members.

but they're only going to be pulling from the knowledge that they have from your business. That's the issue. And that that's going to block your growth. You're going to miss out on some key learnings that you could get externally. think that there's certain sizes of brands where bringing team members or certain team members, like bring your dev team in-house, it totally makes sense because after a while it's just financially more beneficial or it's just financially more viable. But having that external

^{Joe Fox (14:57.902)}
Yes.

_{Rachel Jacobs (15:03.164)}
person or team who knows what direction you're supposed to be taking. Yes, you can try and figure it out internally and make the mistakes and learn from mistakes. And if that's what you want to do, then that's fine. But it just depends on what sort of growth that you're looking for. I feel like the market is changing very significantly. I don't want to like, you know, be cliched and talk about AI all the time. But the robots are coming to take over like that. It just it is what it is. And I think that the people that are being

It's specifically agencies that are being paid just for their hands and for the work that they can do. They're going to become obsolete much sooner, I think, than people realize. A lot of the changes that we've seen over the last five or 10 years, we're going to start seeing that every year and then every few months. And then every month things are just going to change super quickly. So that landscape, think, for agencies to be ahead of that and to be using technologies that are leveraging best practice when it comes to AI in-house.

^{Joe Fox (15:37.574)}
me.

_{Rachel Jacobs (15:59.579)}
you're focused on getting the stuff done that you need to get done for the products that are going out. It's not feasible that you can stay on top of all the trends, stay on top of all the technologies, all of the updates, all of the releases, all of the new features, what your competitors are doing. It's not feasible that you're to be able to do that unless you have like a really rock solid e-com person in-house that is just eat, sleeping and breathing the industry and has access to all of the knowledge. It's very unlikely. That's really what a

great agency will bring to the table. There's a lot of, I'd say 75 % of your agencies out there are good. Maybe 75 is probably ambitious. Maybe 50 % are good. And you've got maybe 10 or 15 % that are excellent and the rest that are really just doing the grunt work. And I think depending on the size that the brand is at will determine what type of agency you need. And then the goal would be to then get an agency that's going to do the grunt work for you.

^{Joe Fox (16:46.861)}
Yes, yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (16:57.948)}
then an agency then that's going to get a lot of the foundations in place and then an agency then that's going to take you to the next level. Can an agency do all three of those? Probably not. I think there's some agencies that can probably do the good and the best. But if you're an agency, if you're working with an agency that's just doing the grunt work and they're not being proactive, they're probably not staying ahead of market trends and there's going to be a lot of churn with the people that they're working with.

^{Joe Fox (17:08.708)}
Mm, mm.

^{Joe Fox (17:27.173)}
Absolutely. Yeah. No, that's, that's really good insights. And I think, you know, that, and this kind of, you know, dovetails into my next question. And I think, you know, you and I have discussed this and I've heard you talk about this, you know, if you are one of those agencies who, who let's say two scenarios, if you are an agency that's just doing the work at the moment and you're at risk of being chewed up by AI tools and the robots,

what would your advice be to those agencies? And then my second question is if you're then an agency who's doing, great, great work, but not, you know, let's call it the best work that category. What do you see as the key kind of influences or factors for those agencies? One to survive that are, that are likely to be at risk by robots and to the agencies that want to get to that next level.

What would your immediate advice be for those types of agencies?

_{Rachel Jacobs (18:27.624)}
at the of the

Yeah, I would say probably if you're the agency that's doing a lot of the grunt work that comes down to processes and systems. Ultimately, it comes down to being proactive. It's the difference between somebody who is receiving as a ticket taker and somebody who's going to be proactive in the recommendations they're making. In a lot of cases, those kind of agencies are delivering standalone services. So we do dev work, do design work, do SEO work, whatever. And I think the agencies that

evolved from that are the ones that build technologies in and understand growth. So you have account managers and you have strategists and you have solutions architects, like that's a different profile of agency. You have at least a management structure. The difference between those agencies and the ones that are best in class, the top five or 10 % of agency is having an exceptional agency owner who's a visionary, who understands his or her own weaknesses.

and is very comfortable stepping out of the way to then have a team of rock stars in place that own, that are champions for specific areas. For me, that's from the outside looking in, that's the difference. So getting from, you know, basements up to the main floor, that's a very tactical thing. Like, you know, you got to do these things. And, you know, that's what we have the EAG community for, for those agencies. need systems, I need process, I need to hire.

^{Joe Fox (19:47.778)}
Yes.

_{Rachel Jacobs (19:54.153)}
I need to get my sales engine in place. need to my delivery engine in place. I need to have a retainer model in place. I need to have growth built into it. That's all very tactical stuff, know, push buttons and move levers. And the next one, a lot of it is around mindset and team. Like that stuff is, that's a different, and I think that it's like, if you, as a business owner, if you have that visionary mindset, you're going to attract people that kind of buy into that. The people that want to work with you because you motivate them.

And then you find those A players that are obsessed with, I don't know, I'm just being hypothetical, obsessed with CRO or obsessed with whatever the specific trade is and they want to take it to the next level. So you hire that team of rock stars, but the agencies that do very, very well, they know their vision. They know who they need in the key roles in order to execute that vision. And they just let them do their job. And I know that seems obvious, but it's not.

^{Joe Fox (20:47.575)}
Yes. Yes. yeah. Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (20:51.12)}
I mean, lot of agencies, especially when I do a lot of executive coaching with senior leadership, and they're just like, my God, I just wish the founder would get out of my way. had a call recently with somebody where they like, I need more time in the company to be able to do this, this and this, or I need to be able to allocate my time over the stuff. the business owner is just like, no, I think you're OK. Like, let's just keep it. And it's just like if you want this person to excel in their role and to be, you know, super productive in what they're doing.

I have to trust their judgment and if you're telling me this is what I need then I'm going to give it to you. I'm going to keep a close eye and hold you accountable but I'm going to give you what you tell me you need. And that's for me what the big difference is like having that vision and can you learn vision? I don't think so. I've never been able to coach it into people. You've either got that and you've got that excitement or motivation and you don't need to be, you know, a lot of us in the industry know Darren Lynch from Irish Titan, one of my

^{Joe Fox (21:21.696)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (21:35.904)}
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (21:48.147)}
close personal friends for better for worse. And for all his flaws, he has got a very clear sense of like who he is, even though it's wildly obnoxious and insane, clear sense of who he is and what he's doing with his business and where he's going. And people buy into that, the brands that he's working buy into it, all of us, myself included, they're in the cult, we've all bought into it. So it's like, you have some of those people and I think that's something you either have or you don't.

^{Joe Fox (22:05.772)}
Yes.

_{Rachel Jacobs (22:18.33)}
There is nothing wrong with being an agency that does good to great work. There is something very different between an agency that is exceptional and it's like a fish rots from the head down. So the head of the fish is either good or it's not. And if it's not, you could hire somebody in your place that could have that visionary mindset if that's not you. I have agencies that have done that really well. Roswell is a great example of one of those agencies where the

^{Joe Fox (22:30.603)}
Yes, yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (22:48.284)}
Finder brought in one of his childhood best friends, Nihar, to be the all singing, all dancing person that kind of pulled it all together, the kind of the ringmaster. And that's worked really, really well for that agency. But by him making that move as a business owner, being like, I'm never going to be that person. I do this really, really well. But that I don't. And if my agency is going to grow, I need that person. And I have somebody that I trust from childhood who I think can do that.

^{Joe Fox (22:56.0)}
Yup. Yup.

^{Joe Fox (23:07.787)}
Yes.

_{Rachel Jacobs (23:16.772)}
And Nihar

^{Joe Fox (23:17.002)}
Yeah. It's amazing at that. Yeah. We both know that. And I think, you know, to your point around that it's infectious, right? Like the way that, the way that Darren is the way that Nihar is, you know, even as a, as an external partner, we, buy into that, you know, it's, it's an infectious vision that you want to be a part of. Even as a partner, you're like, I really want to help them execute on, this vision. I really want to help.

_{Rachel Jacobs (23:40.711)}
Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (23:44.871)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (23:46.757)}
and as a partner, think it makes you more engaged as well. Right. Like if you've got someone who, you can really clearly tell what they want to achieve, the vision that they have for the business, you can align with that. You're more likely as a partner to really throw yourself into that. Whereas I feel that with partners who don't have that necessarily clear vision and they're like, we just want some referrals or some leads, or we want to do a bit of co-marketing together.

_{Rachel Jacobs (23:50.705)}
Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (23:58.642)}
Hmm.

^{Joe Fox (24:15.105)}
It makes it difficult as partners to support because whereas with the partners, you can, you know, see that vision. You're just like, is everything that we're doing together aligned with that overall vision? Am I not necessarily pay off, you know, in three months, but in three years time, is it going to pay off and is it going to be aligned? Yes. Cool. Then it makes it easier for us to do that. So I really love that. That's a, that's a very, very good way of explaining that. Right. Thank you.

_{Rachel Jacobs (24:17.416)}
100%.

_{Rachel Jacobs (24:25.586)}
Mm-hmm.

_{Rachel Jacobs (24:30.716)}
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

_{Rachel Jacobs (24:40.328)}
And for me, vision is like more than transactional. We spoke about that at the start. at the end of the day, we're all in business to make money. There's no two ways about it. If you're not in business to do that, then you shouldn't be doing it. You should be running a charity. if transact, like I've worked with enough businesses where the numbers or the financial benefit was the number one focus.

^{Joe Fox (24:45.243)}
Absolutely. Yeah.

huh.

_{Rachel Jacobs (25:02.172)}
And those people generally speaking are just not particularly reliable or trustworthy because they're just going to go whatever way the wind blows that they think is going to get them closer to that number goal. So I think having vision that's beyond like an actual vision, not I want to hit 10 million in three years or five years.

^{Joe Fox (25:02.442)}
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

^{Joe Fox (25:11.978)}
Yes.

^{Joe Fox (25:18.612)}
Yes, yeah, like a Simon Sinek vision, like why are we doing this? Like what is our goal? Who are we helping? You know, what is our why as opposed to like, we want to be, you know, an agency that does 4 million in annual revenue. We want X percentage in retainers, X percentage in projects. Like that's all fine, I think, to have, but if you don't have any of that to align with what your overall goals are.

_{Rachel Jacobs (25:21.668)}
Yeah. Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (25:37.608)}
Mmm.

^{Joe Fox (25:46.58)}
Your staff aren't going to be motivated because also too, think, I think team members in an agency that they, they don't care how much profit or revenue you're making 90 % of the time, right? Like they've got a reason that they've joined. It's whether they want to be creative and work in certain verticals and industries and projects, or they're very, very passionate about client satisfaction and client outcomes. So yeah, I agree completely. It's like, you've got to have.

that overall infectious vision and you've got to get out of your own way. And I think that's really, really powerful. I think a lot of people I've seen on tech and agency unfortunately cannot get out of their own way sometimes. you got to know, like there's a ton of things I'm not good at. Like I'm very honest about that. I know you're the same. It's like.

_{Rachel Jacobs (26:19.784)}
Hmm.

^{Joe Fox (26:37.491)}
But these are the things I am good at. And these are the areas I'm going to double down on. And I'm going to surround myself or build a team that can fill in my pitfalls and gaps so that we are a well-rounded team. So yeah, that's, that's very solid advice. Rachel, one other thing, cause I know you, you, a lot of what you mentioned there around, you know, particularly for the agencies that need to get in and follow the processes and all of those sorts of things. EAG has all of that.

_{Rachel Jacobs (26:46.546)}
Mm-hmm.

^{Joe Fox (27:07.37)}
documentation and information and resources. It's like the most incredibly valuable library that someone can tap into immediately. once again, for the audience, like I really encourage you to check that out. If you're not a part of EAG, if you're one of the small number of agencies who aren't, please go click on the link. It's a very, very, low entry barrier with a huge upside. No, no, I bet I'm serious. No, no.

_{Rachel Jacobs (27:15.816)}
Hmm.

_{Rachel Jacobs (27:30.184)}
I haven't paid Joe to say this by the way. I haven't paid Joe to say this at all!

^{Joe Fox (27:36.743)}
No, no, no, definitely not. But I think it's important because like to my point of when I had my agency, I would have killed to have these resources instead of have to create them myself with, with a business partner over five years. You know what I mean? Like this is an instant shortcut. So I really encourage agencies, you know, who are watching to check that out in the links. Rachel, two things lastly, cause I know you and I could speak forever. First of all,

_{Rachel Jacobs (27:51.336)}
Yeah.

^{Joe Fox (28:05.607)}
Where can people connect with you? What's the best place to connect with you outside of EAG? Do you prefer LinkedIn? that? Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (28:11.73)}
Yeah, LinkedIn. I mean, my LinkedIn inbox is a bit of a minefield so that, you know, once or twice a month I dabble into that when I'm feeling extra brave. Yeah, eight LinkedIn, Rachel Jacobs or ecommercepartnerships.com or ecommerceagencygrowth.com. People can reach out to me on either of those. But I think LinkedIn is probably like connect on LinkedIn, check out some of my content. That's probably the best way.

^{Joe Fox (28:33.886)}
Definitely. And be prepared for the no filter people, because it's the best way to learn and it cuts through the BS and I love it. So I love Rachel's content because it's very real and authentic. So I encourage you to check that out. And lastly, Rachel, you travel more than any single person I know, like by a long shot in any industry, mind you, let alone ours. So I always like to ask guests what it is that they can't

you know, live without when they're traveling. You know, some people it's like, it might be audible on their iPad or it might be, you know, a certain pair set of headphones or something practical. It could be something that's, that's a keepsake, but what's your thing that you can't travel without when you're on the road, Rach?

_{Rachel Jacobs (29:23.528)}
I'm an awful traveler because I don't even collect travel points. I know that when I tell people that they're just like, you're insane. always, always fly economy. I've never flown anything other than economy. I will pay for a window seat. And if I'm feeling extra spendy, I will pay for extra leg room because I'm tall. I would say it's not really a straight answer because I just get on the plane, get the job done and get home. I don't even like the traveling part of it. I hate it's just getting to other end.

^{Joe Fox (29:27.966)}
Wow. Wow. Yep. Yep. Yep.

_{Rachel Jacobs (29:51.401)}
But one tip that I will give is I do all of my bookings. I use an online platform called Travel Perk. Yeah, so that manages everything. in terms of like invoicing, it's like it's all compatible with Spanish in Spain. So all the Spanish laws. But it also keeps an agenda and itinerary in there. So it just makes it really easy for me to go through and book like cars, trains.

^{Joe Fox (29:58.061)}
I haven't heard of that one. Okay.

^{Joe Fox (30:14.746)}
Nice.

_{Rachel Jacobs (30:14.952)}
Airport hotels like and I can get really good deals on there for a great rates that it's all managed in one place So for me I've used that for the last few years and it's been a really key to success for getting everything booked that I already have my schedule for next year already booked out so I know What travel is gonna look like so that one has been a key success apart from that brain sandwiches brain water bottles Don't pay for shitty airport food. It's disgusting It's so yeah, it's disgusting. It's so expensive

^{Joe Fox (30:19.26)}
Nice.

^{Joe Fox (30:36.703)}
Yeah, my god, and you're gonna get sick from it too. That's, that's the, yeah. Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (30:44.952)}
and just like sleep. I sleep excellently well. Bring your laptop or whatever it is that you have all your movies. If you think I'm not a big working on the plane kind of person, I just think why? Like what's the point?

^{Joe Fox (30:55.76)}
No, no, no, it's the worst and you disconnect and all your Google docs are gone anyway. I think that's one of those rare opportunities where you can just have some new time, prepare yourself mentally for, for whatever is to come. agree a hundred percent.

_{Rachel Jacobs (31:01.48)}
Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (31:11.546)}
Yeah, but no other tips than that is just get to the airport on time, get on the plane on time, get there and just shut up, just suck it up and stop complaining. They overpriced shitty food, yeah.

^{Joe Fox (31:15.742)}
Get it done. Yeah. And avoid the shitty food and avoid the shitty food. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, look, Rachel, thank you so much. You know, thank you for being a good friend. Thank you for your continued support on our advisory board. But above all, thank you for the communities that you've built and continue to build. I know no one else has done it like really. And I can truly say that. Yeah.

_{Rachel Jacobs (31:42.906)}
It's insane because I'm really not that smart so I just don't understand why I'm the one. I don't know why I'm the one that's done it but I like a challenge I suppose.

^{Joe Fox (31:45.989)}
Yeah.

That's not the, not the case at all, but you are very, smart and very, caring. So look, thank you for all that you do. I say that from myself and everyone at Growave and everyone in our community. mean that. So thank you so much for coming on board. I'm sure I will see you again sometime soon, no doubt at one of your amazing EAG events. And yeah, looking forward to connecting and staying in touch. And thank you so much for coming on today.

_{Rachel Jacobs (32:19.688)}
Good to speak to you, Joe.

^{Joe Fox (32:21.693)}
As always, thanks for watching, I'll chat to you shortly.

_{Rachel Jacobs (32:24.232)}
Bye.

^{Joe Fox (32:25.891)}
Audience, thank you so much for tuning into another episode. If you're not already familiar and following Rachel on LinkedIn, I highly encourage you to do that. As I said, EAG is an amazing reference point, an amazing community for any of our agencies who aren't already involved today. As Rachel said, I'm not getting paid to say this, but I purely say that because it's a resource that I wish I had have had.

When I was scaling and building my agency in Australia, it's just phenomenal and seeing a lot of our agency partners go through this program and through these communities and seeing the growth and satisfaction they're having, it speaks for itself. So really encourage you to do that. And thank you for tuning into another episode. Thank you for all of your support. If there's a particular guest you'd like to see me have on next, feel free to mention them in the comments and we'll do our best to get them on.

But until then, thank you for tuning into another episode of Retain Grow Thrive, the Growave podcast.

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